WILLYS TECH PICKUP TRUCK FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
WILLYS TECH PICKUP TRUCK FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
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Axle Shaft End Float Measurement+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AXLES
AXLE SHAFT END FLOAT MEASUREMENT
Frank Wood wrote: If I ever get my chassis back from the blaster/p ainter, I have some brand new bearings/races to install in the axles. Als o bought a shim kit. Wish I knew how to install them. My manual says to " remove or install shims to provide .003" to .007" end float of the axle s haft." What instrument do I need to measure this tolerance and how would I use it. Bearing installation seams straight forward enough but I would welcome any advice from the old... scratch that, experienced hands. Thank s
James Roney wrote: I have found two ways to set the end-play on those old axles. The first way (preferred?) is to go ahead and mount a magnetic base dial indicator and measure the end-play. Before I bought my dial in dicator, I used to set them up this way:
Using a caliper or micrometer, measure each shim and sort them by size . You need to have at least two that are .005.
Put a large stack of shims under one side, and approximately the same amount on the other. The axle should float a lot, and have tons of end pl ay. (clunk-clunk) Gradually remove shims from one side until the endplay gets less and less. Eventually, you will come to the point that there is a tiny little bit. At this point, remove one of the .005" shims. That sho uld eliminate all endplay. If not, remove the other .005" shim. The goal is to find "zero." By using .005", you are guaranteed that you are betwee n zero and (-.004") when the endplay goes away. At that point, add .008" and you're set! Don't forget to "even out" the shims on both sides once y ou've found the correct "total number". Also, it's important to "set" the bearing cups by giving them a firm "whack." (yes, on the threaded end of the axle, so use a wood 2x4 and leave the nut on the axle.) You should o nly have to do this once on each side when you start.
Return to Menujj wrote:
Dana 28: 6.625"
Dana 30: 7.125
Dana 35: 7.56
Dana 41: 8.5"
Dana 44: 8.5"
Dana 53; 9 1/4"
Dana 60: 9.75"
Dana 70: 10.54"
Fords (the axle name tells)
GM 10 bolt: either 7.5" or 8.5"
GM 12 bolt: 8.875"
GM 14 bolt: 9.5" or 10.5"
AMC 20: 8.75"
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Rick Stivers wrote: Hi Guys, Last night I removed my back bumper, rear fenders, and bed skirts form my pickup. Both fenders and one skirt h ad stress cracks that I had welded closed this morning. Rust between the bed and fenders was starting to pit but I think I caught it before it got too bad. After I repaint this, do you think it would be ok to make a rub ber gasket to fit in between them to prevent the paint from rubbing off o r do you think it would cause more rust. I had also thought about putting a sealer or calk of some type in there instead.
Most of my bolts broke off when I tried to take them off, which is ok because I wanted to replace them anyway. I was thinking about replacing t hem with stainless steel bolts. This would make removing them so much eas ier and will only cost me about twice as much to buy. My questions are wi ll the stainless cause dissimilar metal corrosion when the bolts wear thr ough the paint from vibration and will paint stick to the stainless or wi ll it flake off? Does it need a special preparation?
James Roney wrote: I use the same material that the Germans used for 2 0 years on the Volkswagen. The material between the fender and body works great on the pickup fenders. The Volkswagen fender welting is really che ap, and long enough.
I love the stainless bolts. 304 or 316 take paint just fine, and will eventually rust when in contact with iron, but you'll be happy you spent the money.
Return to MenuEric wrote: Hi All, Just wondering if anyone out there has a good idea for temporary paint spray booth. I am getting ready to do the finish coat on my 54 SDDL and I really don't want to get dust ,dirt ,or debris on it. I was thinking about using 1" pcv and plastic sheets.
Mitch Utsey responded: sounds good, Don't forget to wet down the floor about half an hour before starting to paint. It settles the dust. Wear a good mask, not just a paper one.
Rick Stivers wrote: Some of these places do OK, but you have to be car eful about mixing product brands of paint supplies. If you decide to let them paint the truck, find out what brand of paint they will be using and only use that brand in your prep- work. Many of these brands are incompa tible. I've seen cross mixing of brands cause paint to peal, crack, and b ubble. I once worked at a MAPCO (Small Chain) and they would give a very nice paint job if you did the prep and supplied them the paint. If you di dn't supply it, you had to pick between one of their 20 colors they bough t in 55 gal drums.
If you plan to paint it yourself, I suggest you obtain a copy of "How To Paint Your Car" published by MBI Publishing Company. Written by David H. Jacobs Jr. It cost about $20. It probably gets a little more in depth than you need but what the heck.
Return to MenuWILLYS TRUCK COVER
Chris wrote: Has anyone come across a pre-fitted indoor or out doo r cover for their pickup? The closest new truck I found with similar dime nsions is the Dodge Dakota.
Jerry Adams wrote: I don't know if they actually make a cover that is an exact fit for your particular vehicle, but I would like to recommend t he truck covers made by "Falcon." I purchased one about two years ago for my 1976 F150. It fit pretty good, and seems like it will last forever. I know it won't of course, but it is still going strong while the other ca r covers I bought last about a year. It cost $150 for one to fit a full s ized pickup. The pastor of our church is a member of "Price-Cosco" which is a discount club sort of thing here in Southern California. He got mine for me at a PC in the LA area.
I am pretty sure that Falcon has an 800 number, but I can't find it ri ght now. I suggest that you try calling the 800 information operator (1-8 00-555-1212) and ask them if they have a number listed for the Falcon Manufacturing Company.
Return to MenuHOW HEAVY IS THE PICKUP BED?
Rick Stivers wrote: I'm going to take the bed off of my truck tomo rrow and would like to have some idea how much it weighs. Can two people do the job or will I need to find two more?
Scott Little wrote. 2 people can do it no problem. If you paint it up all nice you might want extra people to put it back on just so no paint g ets scratched.
Matt Phillimore wrote: My dad and I picked mine up and moved it last w eekend, but it took three to get it off, one on the back , and one at eit her front corner. It's not too bad, though.
Return to MenuChris Croyle wrote: Rick, I went down the road too last year with the curved glass. I called almost every possible glass place around. I le arned there are 2 or 3 manufacturers in the USA that make these windshiel ds and just a handful of big main warehouses that store the windshield. I had located one in Ohio and one in Arizona. The local glass dealers were getting flack from the main warehouses because they got so many phone ca lls, they passed the word for me to stop pricing it out. My ultimate deal was Diamond Auto Glass. I think they are a national franchise. So I my d eal came to $342.81 installed with a lifetime leak warranty and a guarant ee that they would replace if it broke during installation. The Nags part # DW00580 GTNN. I hope your local glass company will replace it free if they break it.
James Roney wrote: I installed a piece of curved windshield glass into my 1965 Sunbeam Tiger in the summer of 1988. I got the (then) impossible to find glass in good condition from a salvage yard. I ordered a new rub ber gasket and a quart of WD-40. It was immediately obvious that the wind shield glass was way too large to fit in the frame, so I complained to th e seller, but he would not take it back. I then told the rubber supplier that his gasket was the wrong size. He asked if I tried to install it, an d then he wouldn't take it back. I worked on that windshield for 4 hours. I soaped, measured, slapped, pushed and pulled. I took the windshield fr ame off of the car. I was absolutely satisfied that the windshield was to o large.
A buddy of mine came over and slobbered my WD-40 all over the rubber. He then took a piece of sash cord and roped it around the windshield / ga sket assembly. He started in one corner, and one smooth and continuous mo tion pulled the cord out of the gasket and the windshield popped into the frame. It fit perfectly, and looked great. The whole show took maybe 5 m inutes. I made him take it back out so that I could try. He thought I was an idiot. I swear that the glass grew when he pushed it back out. Using his technique, and many attempts, I finally got it back in. I was very pr oud of myself.
He said it would have been better if I didn't F*## with it. I hate him ...
Return to MenuJeff Gent wrote: I had a very productive weekend. Besides a lot of cleanup/organization of the shop I managed to finaly get the body off. N ow I can really concentrate of the driveline. There were some questions a while back on how to get the body off intact. It was very straight forwa rd with most of the effort just in the preparation (which I did most of s ome time ago). I removed all the doors and windows, disconnect all of the wee bits (wires, cables, etc) and remove all the big things (steering wh eel, tranny shifter, seats, fenders, grill, and hood). Then all I had to do was take out the body mount bolts (that went easier than I thought) an d lift the body off. I was able to do this by myself by tying slings arou nd the four corner posts and using two hoists to my rafters (one to the f ront and one to the rear). Twelve foot rafters were a big help. The only thing was to go slow and work the brake/clutch pedals out through the hol e (I wasn't able to get the steering gear up out of the hole until after the pedals went down). The tires were on dollies so once the body was up I could just slide the chassis sideways out from under it and then lower the body down onto blocks. By the way, those dollies are the ones from Ha rbor Freight, very nice but plan on replacing all the bolts with grade 5. They've come in quite handy. I then made a wood frame and connected it t o some body mounts so the body now sits on those dollies so I can move it out of the way. The chassis is very easy to move now with just a single floor jack.
Wow. What a difference. Setting up the motor/tranny, etc will be much easier and I'm glad the body when off so easily as I'll have to put it on /off several times before I'm done. I'll be able to do the body work much easier as well with the frame out of the way. I also mocked up an SOA a couple weekends back by just parking the springs of top of the tubes and I was rather pleased that it doesn't make the wagon look like it had a te stosterone overdose. It's obviously lifted but not too bad. That's with t he 31" tires the PO put on it.
Return to MenuMVP The Herb Farm wrote: With the help of my brother I was abl e to remove all the side glass from my '53 Wagon last weekend. Does anyon e have any tips on how to get the two windows out of the tailgate. I figu red I would try Bernie's method--lots of straight dishwashing detergent a nd a thin screwdriver. Should I pry the rubber from the inside or outside of the tailgate. Any tips would be appreciated.
It looks like I am going to have to replace all the rubber and slide c hannels for every window. After 50 years the rubber is brittle and the sl ide channels have lost their felt. Any one found the best price on these- -Carl Walck has them all for around $400:
Windshield Weatherstrip $50.00 X1 $50.00
Glass Channel Kit, Door $22.50 X2 $45.00
Door Weatherstrip Seal $16.50 X2 $33.00
Vertical Wing Window Seal $12.00 X2 $24.00
Side Sliding Window Rubber $25.00 X2 $50.00
Side Sliding Window Channel $19.00 X2 $38.00
Side Rear Window Rubber $25.00 X2 $50.00
Tailgate Window Rubber $20.00 X2 $40.00
Vent Window Rubber (set of 2) $47.60 X1 $47.60
Tailgate Seal Kit $20.00 X1 $20.00
Total-------------------------------------------$397.60
You guys with the MJ's and CJ's have it made with only the front winds hield to deal with. Although I guess those canvas tops don't come cheap. My Dad always told me not to get cheap rubber, but for $400 I should be a ble to get a vasectomy.
Rick Stivers responded:If you are replacing the rubber on the tailgate anyway I would remove the windows by cutting the window retaining lip of f. I recommend never prying anywhere near old (or even new) glass. Too mu ch pressure and you'rr buying a new piece.
Return to MenuPAINT STRIPPING AND RUST PREVENTION
Vern Heywood wrote: Last weekend, West Coast Willys had an outing in my neck of the woods. They met at the Peterson Automotive museum. It w as pretty cool to see so many vehicles all in one place. OK, there were o nly about 10, but I've only seen about 5 in a 200 square mile area around my house in the last year. We went to get ideas, and the vehicles really varied as to how they were built. There were full restorations to custom rods. My favorite was probably a green pick- up...it appeared to be all original and very mint. Sorry, not familiar with the different body style s to be able to ID what year. Most radical was a wagon on Corvette runnin g gear, including front and rear suspension. My '49 station wagon has bee n sitting since I bought it last November while I've been trying to decid e what to do with it. Originally I thought I would take the body off and put it on a 4WD frame. But, now I realize, it's OK to only have 2WD, they still look pretty cool, regardless if they have a transfer case or not. It was very inspiring! I couldn't wait to get home and begin working on m y own!
So, the work has begun! I've started with stripping the paint. Unfortu nately, it does not look like there was any prep work on the last four of it's eight paint jobs. It's bad! I'm using Aircraft Remover as someone s uggested and I'm having to apply it about three to four times to get down to a smooth surface. This removes about 2 coats of paint per application . I've also removed the cracked and rotting fiberglass fender flares that were installed and found some nasty rot underneath all along the raised band around the wheel well. I expected it there, so I'm neither surprised or discouraged. Any tips on speeding up the paint removing process and o n repairing the body rot would be greatly appreciated. Now we find out ho w well I inspected the rest of the body!
Ray Johnson wrote: I'd like to get some advice on how to remove the ru st from the bottom of my 53 wagon body and what process or products are r ecommended thereafter. I have removed the body from the frame and am plan ning to sandblast it myself. I've used Extend for neutralizing-sealing re sidual rust but haven't been impressed with the long term result or the p rice. Is there any better/cheaper alternative? After sealing the rust wha t process or products work best? I assume the same techniques will work f or the frame? Thanks
MVP The Herb Farm wrote: I don't know if this product is cheaper, but try Por-15, They have a full line of rust preventatives/sealers and their Web site has some detailed instructions for removing rust and using thei r products. http://www.por15.com
Glenn Dudley wrote: I've also heard good things written about Corroles s in several of my restoration magazines. Seems to do the same kind of th ing as POR-15. They both say you don't have to get down to bare metal but if you go through the trouble of getting that close, why not play it saf e.
I've also seen a frame powder-coated but that's a lot more expensive.< /P>
Rand wrote: Vern.....I'm not so sure that using a striper is such a go od Idea, I've been working on aircraft for quite some time and have seen this stuff used, mostly is like a caustic soda, the stuff is corrosive if not neutralized when completed. I own a 50 pickup that I'm doing a frame off restro of and I have chosen sandblasting over chems. The roof for ex ample looks like its spot-welded around the rain channels that to me is a great place for your stripper to run and get trapped between the two lay ers. If not removed will cause it to rust. I know blasting is messy but i f your vehicle . wasn't prepped good to begin with you will find small po ckets of cancer all over the place and sandblasting will remove this wher e your chems might make them more active...I also don't believe in the st uff they sell in the can that needs no prep work....you just spray and it neutralizes rust so you can just prime...You also need to think that if you strip the paint to bare metal you need to not only prime and paint bu t also seal before doing so....PPG makes a great line of prep products da s 1980 is a good sealer (18.95 quart) . also look at the kind of paint th at you want to use, this will help determine what kind of primer and seal er to use....... I'm kind of new to this hot line so anybody jump in if I 'm wrong.....
Vern Heywood replied back: The eight different paint jobs are a a real PITA now, but it has done a great job of preserving the vehicle. I belie ve he only reason I have the cancer around the wheel wells is because moi sture became trapped between the flares and the body. While there are ple nty of layers of paint on the top of the flare, there was nothing blockin g the moisture being splashed up from the tires.
Unfortunately, sandblasting is not an option. HOA has a thing about co mpressors and other loud noises, and while I could farm it out, that woul d kind of defeat the purpose of having a "project" vehicle. I am doing sm all sections of the stripper at a time and then thoroughly cleaning and a pplying a primer/sealer before I go on to the next section. I will probab ly have to farm out the repair of the cancer around the wheel well, thoug h. Unless my welding skills greatly improve in the next week or so. I'm s tubborn...not stupid. Ok...not THAT stupid! ;:)
Mitch Utsey wrote: I would not sand blast, as the sand is too coarse a nd heavy. Plastic media or bead blasting, maybe. If it is a frame off, ta ke the body to a professional stripper, it will run about the same price as buying the good stuff and doing it yourself. If it is not a frame off, you can take it to a professional shop and have it media blasted. This w ill run a little bit more than do it yourself, but it is done with a mate rial that is not readily available to most people. I would not, however, go with walnut shell blasting, as that leaves a thin coating of oil that has to be removed.
I would seal it no matter what, so that you do not have to worry about the paint underneath.
Return to MenuWayne E LaMothe wrote: I have noticed in the gallery that some of the pickemups have steps on the box in front of the rear fender and behin d the cab. Was this stock and, id so, where can I find replacements. I wo uld suspect that they are one of the first things to go on a work truck d ue to their vulnerability. I did not find them listed in Carl's or Barry' s information.
Richard Grover wrote: They were stock. I think you'll have to find som e in a salvage yard or from someone who is parting out a truck. I've neve r seen any replicas. I suggested to Classic Enterprises that rear fenders and steps might sell well.
A previous owner of my Willys fabricated some steps out of diamond pla te. I just pulled one off Monday night to fabricate a new mount for it.
James Roney wrote: STOCK??? What years? I've never seen them on anythi ng with round fenders. I've seen lots on the older 49-51's.
Is this truly correct for a 53? Crap...I thought I was through collect ing parts for mine. Anyone out there with pictures???
Richard Grover wrote: I may have been wrong on this. I have seen the s tock steps on some trucks, but I don't know the exact years. I just check ed the famous model identification poster and Paul Barry's restoration gu ide to find several examples of pre-1950 trucks with steps and several po st 1950 trucks without steps.
The break point is unclear. There is a picture of a 1950 truck with pe aked fenders and steps in Paul's book. There a picture on the poster of t he model 7-73 1950-51 without the steps.
Help! Someone... anyone with a clean stock truck, clue us in (those wi th mutilated trucks) regarding the steps.
Kravitzd wrote: Friends, My 55 has no steps, and doesn't look awkward without them. All the paint
matches down there, though there are "orphan" screw holes where someth ing could have been bolted on.
I did immediately notice the 49(?) pickup that Paul Barry was hauling (on the way to the Reunion) "Ole Yeller," did in fact have them, albeit i n very poor shape. If you squint, you never miss em.
Frank Sanborn wrote: The photo of the truck in your gallery in spot B- 8 has the steps on it in perfect condition. I took a detail shot of the s teps for my own curiosity when I saw them. I can send a scan of it if you want to post it.
Matt Hasty wrote My '54 never had any steps nor mounts, but the '50 I just picked up does. There are frame stickie-outies that slide into a cha nnel in the bottom of the step with a bolt that secures. My guess is the change happened somewhere between those years.
Matt Phillimore wrote: I thought they were done away with about the sa me time as the peaked fenders were added...But we all know how much of a collage these trucks can be. And since the frames and stuff are all virtu ally identical, the steps would be an easy add on to any truck. And they, at least to me, would have been a nice feature to have had.
Chris Croyle wrote: I dug up an old e-mail that I believe I sent to "W illys America" back in March and here is what they wrote:
Chris Croyle wrote: "Do you sell the side step that fits behind the ca b (located under spare tire and the opposite side of the spare tire) for my '61 Willys 4wd L6-226? If you do, how much for each step?"
Reply to Chris Croyle from Paul: "those steps were only on the 47-49 m odels, get our catalog!" (I never did buy that catalog!) Maybe someone ha s this catalog from "Willys America".
Frank Wood wrote: Noooooooooo Dan, mine never had them. Seems like a r ead somewhere that 1949 or 50 was the last year. Maybe they were dropped when the grill was changed. They do look handy. Back when I found that gu y that wanted to make wooden fenders, I actually had the thought that woo den running boards might be a nice little custom addition. How's your woo dworking Dan? Better than your wrench wrestling?
Jerry Adams wrote: Ackerson's "Standard Catalog of 4X4's" shows a pict ure of a 1947 that
clearly shows the step. He doesn't have a picture for the '48, '49, or '50 models, but he does include a photo of a '51. It is a bit dark, but I can make out what appears to be a sort of short running board that exte nds from the front fender bay to about half the width of the door, and th ere is no hint of a step near the rear fender. The step does not appear i n any other photo, so I would say that it went away for good by '51, at l east as a factory standard item. It may have been available as an option though.
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MVP The Herb Farm wrote: Jerry: Since you are a retired Electronic s Design Engineer from the DELCO Electronics Division, do you think it wo uld be possible for you to give us wagon and pickup guys a lesson on how to convert our original 6 volt gauges over to 12 volt and have them read accurately. I've heard from others that it can be done but I'm not really good with electronics Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Than ks for all your great posts!!
Mark Usnick responded: When I converted my CJ5 to 12V, I got some good tips from Eric Lawson (met him on classicjeep). He has a very good write -up at http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Alternator.html
The one thing his article was missing was a way to run the old 6V guag es in the new 12V system. I recently stumbled across an excellent writeup on how to build 12V to 6V voltage regulators of different capacities. It 's a top-notch article. Check it out at: http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/6 to12to6/
Scott Little wrote: The web page below (6to12to6) is similar to a volt age regulator recipe I got from Willys Works in Tucson. However mine is s impler and does not use the capacitor or transistor or diode or heatsink. Maybe that is why my temp gauge does not read correctly. Guess I better try again and see what happens. That is a very good write-up, I don't rea lly know what any of it means but I can probably duplicate it without any trouble.
Jerry Adams responded: I checked out the above site, and it is a darne d good one. I did not know that Radio Shack Carried the 7806 part. I chos e the LM317T instead, and made it a 6V part by adding the resistors. I ma de my unit several years ago, when Radio Shack didn't carry the 7806, so I worked around it with parts they had.
The man's deigns are simple and sound, although he does not provide an y "load dump" protection. "Load dump" is a term that stands for the serio us voltage spike and oscillations that occur if the load is suddenly remo ved from an alternator. A load dump can reach up to about 50 volts, and o ccurs when a heavy load above about 50% of the unit's rated output is sud denly removed from an alternator. This is due to the fact that the intern al regulator has had the alternator's field coils energized to a level th at will sustain the required high output. When the load has been suddenly removed (say a fuse blows), it takes a finite time for the regulator to detect the fact that the load is no longer present and compensate. During this time, the output of the alternator rises dramatically. The exact am ount of the rise will depend on several things including: the state of ch arge and overall condition of the battery; the quality of the connections in the circuit, particularly the ones between the battery and the altern ator; the wire gage, quality of connections, etc. between the component t hat "dumped" and the other components in the system; the relative locatio n of the component in question in the vehicle's wiring system; and lots o f other rather obscure things.
Because most solid state electronics components will fail very quickly (on the order of a few 1/1,000,000's of a second) if subject to too much voltage, GM found it necessary to incorporate load dump protection in al l solid state devices that are connected to the vehicle's 12 volt system.
I would use a different transistor in the high powered rig, as the tra nsistor he chose is in a TO-5 case and is a bit awkward to mount when com pared to the much more simple TO-220 type case. Other than that, I like w hat he has. Because there are so many variables involved with "load dump, " you may well be able to just build what he has designed and use it for years without any troubles. On the other hand, many jeepers like to insta ll lots of high current equipment like winches, off road driving lights, etc., so the chances of such equipment creating a load dump are proportio nally greater than would otherwise be the case...
Jerry Adams wrote: I don't know what kind of gages you have on your ve hicle, but in my CJ2A, the temperature and oil pressure gages are mechani cal. The ammeter doesn't know or care about the difference between 6 volt s and 12 volts, so the only gage that needs converting is the gas gage. T his gage draws about 0.8 amps max, so I designed a simple solid state reg ulator that clamps the output voltage at 5.89 volts. I put it in a small plastic case which mounts on the firewall. It requires only a hand full o f components, all of which are available at Radio Shack:
1 ea. Small plastic experimenter's box with cover
1 ea. Short fuse holder
1 ea. 1.5 A. Fuse
2 ea. 15 volt Zener Diodes
1 ea. LM317T Voltage Regulator
1 ea. 220 ohm resistor
1 ea. 1,000 ohm resistor
1 ea. 4,700 ohm resistor
1 ea. "TO-220" Mounting Kit
1 ea. "TO-220" Heat Sink
1 ea. Small Piece of "Vector Board."
4 ea. 4-40 X 3/4" screws
12 ea. 4-40 nuts
12 ea. #4 flat washers.
Not absolutely necessary, but it makes a more professional looking uni t:
1 ea. 4-screw terminal strip
2 ea. 6-32 X 1" screws
2 ea. 6-32 nuts
4 ea. #6 flat washers.
#18 gage insulated wire to make connections to the "outside world." If you use the terminal strip, you will need about a foot or so. If you dec ide to wire the box directly to the fuel gage, you will need enough wire to run from where ever you mount the box to the back of the fuel gage.
Tools:
Small soldering iron
Small spool of Rosin Core solder
Small needle nose pliers
Small diagonal wire cutters
Small screwdriver
Small crescent wrench or a good pair of pliers
Drill and a couple of bits.
Hack saw to cut a small section of the vector board.
The construction is definitely *not* rocket science, and should be wel l within the capabilities of any of you. I put mine together in one leisu rely evening working at the kitchen table. If you are interested, e-mail me privately, and I'll whip up a set of "plans" and snail mail them to yo u. I made my unit a bit more fancy with an "LED" to tell me it's working, and some serious "Load Dump" protection (more than I have provided in th e above parts list), but that is not necessary.
It's been a while since I built it, so I really don't remember the cos t, but I think that it should run about $10 to $15:
Box and other hardware - about $5.00
LM317T, heat sink, mount kit - About 5.00
Resistors, Zeners - about $3.00
Vector board - About $3.00
The above prices are strictly guesswork.
If I get any interest, I'll go down to Radio Shack and get exact Part Numbers, Prices, etc. and include them in the plans...
Joseph Dante wrote Jerry, I definitely have an interest. I would have no trouble with the assembly either. I just read your reply to the other design and am of like mind that the load dump protection is a good idea. Is it possible to incorporate the newer-easier components into your desig n. In addition is it possible to "load dump" protect the system as a hole or dose the same characteristic that precludes the regulator in the alte rnator from catching it, prevent one device cure all approach. It sounds to me as if you are the man for the job. :) Thanks in advance for your ti me and trouble.
Jerry Adams wrote: It is possible to make a filter that will catch a l oad dump for the entire system, but not necessary. All modern (made durin g the last 10 years or so) automotive electronics gizmos have load dump p rotection incorporated in the design, or at least they will unless made i n lower boonkdocia by conscripted high school dropouts. The other stuff, like lights, motors, etc. can withstand a load dump. A typical load dump pulse lasts for about 20 to 30 milliseconds, which is not long enough to do much damage to them. It is the transistor's intolerance for even extre mely short periods of over voltage that causes the problem with solid sta te devices. It is much easier and cheaper to provide the protection as ne eded.
The LM317 is an old design component. I chose it because (1) Radio Sha ck carries them; (2) The design is proven, stable and rugged; and (3) the LM317 was good for about 1.5 amps, which gave me some margin. There are several voltage regulator chips that have been specifically designed for automotive applications. For example, the LM2940 Voltage Regulator chip m ade by National Semiconductor has 60V Load Dump, Reverse Battery protecti on, Short Circuit protection and Thermal Limit protection **built into th e chip***. I don't know how available they are, but an LM2940 would make designing (and building) a 1 amp, 6 volt supply a breeze. For example:
---------------
| |
12V in -------------| LM2940-5 |--------|--------------|------ 6V out
| | | |
---------------- / |
| \ 510 ohm |
| / |+
| | --- 10ufd
----------------| --- 16 to 35V
| |
/ |
\ 100 ohm |
/ |
| |
----------------------------------------------|--------------|------ G ROUND
Would work just fine to run a fuel gage. You could add the bypass tran sistor shown in the schematic for the web site to get more current, but y ou would need to either choose a transistor that could stand 60 volts, or provide load dump protection for it. The above is so simple to make, I w ould tend to make a separate unit for each gage. You can also make a supp ly that would allow you to use one of the old 6V radios if you want to ke ep it, but I would be much more inclined to install a modern radio. I lov e classical music which almost has to be in stereo, and I like FM much be tter than AM, so I would want a more modern radio. However, to each his o wn in that regard. I'll look into the availability of the LM2940. If they are easy to find, that would be the way to go. I designed my unit in the mid 1980's, and the LM317 was the best component I could find at Radio S hack back then.
Return to Menu6V GAUGES TO 12 V STARTER SOLENOID
? wrote: I am rebuilding a '62 willys pu. i recently converted it to 12v from 6v. my solenoid on the starter keeps emitting smoking after s mall increments of starting(10 to 15 sec). I thought at first that maybe i wired up my maxi fuse wrong. but now i am being lead to believe that it maybe a 6v or just very old? either I should replace it with 12v.
Jerry Adams responded: Your solenoid is telling you that it's a 6V uni t and doesn't particularly like working on 12 volts. Yes, by all means, i nstall a 12 Volt unit. By the way, there are two problems associated with using a 6V starter on a 12V system:
1. The starter will get hot real quick if you "grind" on it, and there is a very real possibility you could burn it out.
2. There is a very real and serious danger that a 6V starter motor can literally over-rev itself and fly apart if it is allowed to run unloaded on a 12V system. This can happen really easily if your Bendix drive fail s to engage the gear on the flywheel, or the Bendix unit breaks a shaft. Not good!
I strongly urge you to either buy and install a 12 Volt starter motor, or have a set of 12 volt field coils installed in your old unit. The 12V field coils will not do much to keep it from overheating, but should pre vent the unit from over-revving and destroying itself. I had the 12 Volt fields installed in the starter on my '2A when I converted it over to 12 volts.
Return to Menu? Wrote: Hey Group, Took my truck down the road aways to a VW rest o place to see if I could get my
hands on a Blaupunkt 6 volt radio.
The female laughed at me, which takes a certain amount of guts conside ring I am 6' 2" 240 lbs. She says that every 6 volt Bug she could ever re member seeing did not have a radio at all. Her mechanic did recommend rad io shack for a voltage booster.
This way, I could run a modern 12 volt radio off my 6 volt system.
Jerry Adams responded: This is the way I would go. For one thing, all of the 6 volt radios I have seen used vacuum tubes and a "vibrator" power supply to make the high (about 150 volts) voltage needed for the plates. You can still get several varieties of tubes, but I don't even begin to know where to start looking for a vibrator. A more modern radio would hav e FM, a tape deck, and other goodies.
? Wrote Jerry, as poor of a mechanic as I am, I am a frighteningly bad electrician. (If there are three wires, I will hook em up wrong 4 times, and by the time I get em right, the components are fried)
Jerry Dear me! Well, take heart! I was in the middle of the 7th grade before I could convince my body to do a "Jumping Jack." If you want to se e something humorous, watch me try to drive a screw with my left hand... The point is, that, just as we are "all good at something," most of use a re also *bad* at something as well. Good thing too- can you imagine what would happen if we were all good at the same thing, and bad at everything else? We would have a world with damn good pretzels, but lousy beer!
? Wrote Is there such a thing as a voltage booster? If so, can you giv e me the Neanderthalian intro briefing?
Jerry OK- In plain English, yes, there are ways to boost a DC (Direct Current) voltage. For example, one could design a transistorized circuit to switch the input (say 6 volts) on and off several thousand times per s econd. If you fed this switched power through a properly designed transfo rmer, the output would be a higher voltage version of the chopped up inpu t. This could then be "rectified," or converted back to DC. Add the neces sary components to stabilize and smooth up the output, and viola! 12 volt s made from 6 volts. The "vibrator" I mentioned in regard to a 6 volt rad io is a mechanical switch that is used to chop up the input voltage, whic h is then fed to a transformer, rectified, filtered, and used to supply t he high voltage DC needed to run the vacuum tubes. They used a mechanical chopper because there were no transistors back then, and while it was po ssible to make an electronic chopper, they would need to employ a vacuum tube, which would require the high voltage DC they were trying to make in the first place.
Not having transistors (and their cousins, the solid state diode) arou nd forced many designers to look to mechanics to solve electrical problem s. Another example of a mechanical solution to an electrical problem is t he commutator found on all early automotive generators. The commutator fu nctions as a mechanical "rectifier" to force the output of the generator to always have the same polarity. Without a commutator, the output would be AC, just like the power in your house, but at a varying frequency that depended on the RPM the generator was running at.
An Alternator is also inherently an AC device, but a bank of solid sta te diodes converts the output to DC. With no diodes around, the "folks ba ck then" came up with a very clever mechanical solution to the problem of converting the AC to DC in a generator. By the way, one of the big reaso ns why Alternators are so much more efficient than generators is that it becomes exceedingly complex to have more than one set of brushes in a sma ll space. This means that the ordinary automotive generator has only one set of brushes, which means that only one set of windings can be connecte d to them at a time. Also, the power creating windings of a generator mus t be connected to the commutator. Because they need to be wound of relati vely heavy wire to carry the current, the windings are relatively speakin g heavy. This creates some interesting mechanical problems due to the cen trifugal forces acting on the moving armature (more correctly referred to as the "rotor") of the generator. The field windings, which produce the magnetic field required for the generator to make electricity don't run t hrough the commutator, and are fixed to the side wall of the generator ho using, where they are referred to as the "stator."
In an alternator, the rectification is done by a set of diodes, rather than the mechanical switch of the generator. This means that more than o ne set of windings can be employed, which makes the entire system more ef ficient and compact. Also, the power producing windings can become the "s tator" and are fixed inside the body of the alternator. The field winding s become the rotor, and are wound into the moving part of the alternator. You still need a brush assembly to get the power to the field coils in a n alternator, but because the current is a lot lower, and no rectificatio n is needed, the large brushes and commutator in a generator are replaced by much smaller brushes working on simple continuous contacts called "sl ip rings." For various reasons, it is easier to design and manufacture th e rotor of an alternator so that it will withstand the mechanical forces created when it is spun rapidly. If you have both a generator and an alte rnator side by side, you will notice that the pulley on the generator is larger than the pulley on the alternator. This means that, for a given en gine RPM, the alternator will be turning faster than the generator. This allows the alternator to put out more power at a lower RPM than a generat or can.
Jerry Adams wrote: OK- Here's the *simple* way to do it- Look in the J C Whitney catalog (yes, I know...). On page 32 of their latest (I think c atalog we find:
"Operate your 12V Negative-ground Accessories in Vehicles with a 6V or 12V Positive or 6V Negative-ground System!
"*A must when you want to use newer accessories (radio, CD player, rad ar detector, mobile phone) in your older or 'classic' vehicle.
"Converter is small enough (a 1-3/4" cube) and light enough (about 9 o z) to fit neatly, easily on the accessory it serves, behind your dash or in any other convenient spot. Uses common ground - no isolation required. Reverse Polarity, overload and short-circuit protection. Low (10mA) no-l oad current minimizes draw on battery when an alarm system or radio/clock with memory is in use. NOTES: Check continuous and peak power requiremen ts before ordering. (1) With your vehicle's 6V input and these inverters/ converters, a high-output 12V sound system may perform effectively at low volume, but not for extended periods beyond the converter's stated capac ities. (2) Weak batteries, malfunctioning electronics systems and poor co nnections lower capacities. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR: Power-actuated door lock s, trunk release solenoids, air conditioner clutches, fans, blowers, powe r windows or other electro-mechanical devices."
They list two choices for running a 12V radio from a 6V Positive groun d system:
^^^^^^^^
Catalog Number Capacity with 4 to 16V input Price
81NF4988U 26.5 Watts - 2.1 amps @ 12.6V $89.99
81NF4989B 16 Watts - 1.3 amps @ 12.6V $59.99
and two choices for running a 12V radio from a 6V Negative ground syst em:
^^^^^^^^
Capacity with 5V to 8V input
81NF3904B 30 Watts - 2.5 amps @ 12.6V $89.99
81NF3905R 18 Watts - 1.5 amps @ 12.6V $59.99
So, there you are - yes, you can run a modern radio from your 6V jeep. Are the above items any good? I haven't a clue! My experience with JC Wh itney goes back a long way, and I find their products to be a mixed bag. Some good stuff, an occasional clunker. Back in the late 60's I purchased two 6V "universal" electric wiper motors for a 1954 Dodge WM300 "Power W agon" from JCW, and one worked great, the other did not - JCW replaced th e defective motor, and it worked fine. 20+ years later, I bought two more of the same motors (as best I could recall, they looked identical to the earlier units!) for my CJ2A when I converted it over to 12 volts, and bo th of them work great. So, you pays you nickel and you takes you chances.
If the Negative post of your battery is hooked to the chassis, you hav e a Negative ground system. If the Positive post is hooked to the chassis , you have a Positive ground system. I am pretty sure that all early jeep s were Negative ground, but check to make sure before you order. If it we re me, I would go for the higher capacity unit. I think that most simple- minded car radios pull about 12 watts, so they would work OK with the low er power system, but I am a big believer in not running equipment flat ou t, so I would go for the bigger unit. Besides, who knows when a little ex tra 12V might come in handy?
Can you build one yourself? Yes, but you would probably find that the cost of the components is greater than what you would pay for the above u nits, plus you would have to deal with the packaging, etc.
I hope this helps you!
Return to Menu6 VOLT TACH< /P>
Richard Grover wrote: Good numbers. Where did you find a tach? Are you 12V? I looked for a 6V tach but all I could find were 12V tachs. I d on't know what difference it makes, but the people at the parts stores di dn't think a 12V tach would work with a 6V system. I know I can do the wh ole voltage conversion in electronics, but it seemed like a lot of work f or a tach. How about an electrical engineer explaining to us why a 12V ta ch will or will not work with 6V?
Glenn Goodman wrote: Same for 24 volt. It's been fun trying to find an ything at all for a 24 volt system and I sure would like to find a tach f or it. Any ideas/suggestions/ solutions?
Hasty, Matt wrote: Hello peoples, There is a place in CA that speciali zes in restored tachs. It's called;
Palo Alto Speedometer718 Emerrson Street Palo Alto. CA 94301
650-323-4632 or 650-323-0243 Speedometers, tachometers, clocks, gauges , restored, calibrated.
Return to MenuDan wrote OK. I asked one of the big shots connected with West Coast Willys to keep his eyes open for a stock 6 volt dash radio at the 5th annual Willys Meet at Toledo. I said I would pay up to $75 for an ope rational one. He said they are extremely hard to find, ranging in price f rom $200-$700 bucks, the priciness based on the smart Willys logo on the dial face. OK, I'm still going to try a Blaupunkt if I don't have to carv e the dash too badly.
Return to Menu? Wrote: How can I test if my generator is working!?
Jerry Adams wrote: The first, and most obvious step is to carefully in spect ***all*** of the wiring running between the generator, voltage regu lator, ammeter, and battery. Make absolutely certain that the insulation is good, and all connections are clean and tight. This will involve no li ttle amount of effort, as you should check the entire circuit, including the connections to the ammeter! If you find any hint of bad insulation, i t is best to replace the wire!
If this doesn't cure the problem, you have to check out the charging s ystem: There should be two posts on your generator. One is marked "F" or "FLD" and the other "A" or "ARM". Assuming you have a reasonably accurate volt-ohm meter:
1. With the engine running at about 2,000 RPM (use your hand throttle, be sure to block the wheels!), measure the voltage between the "A" termi nal and ground. If the generator is working OK, it should be between 7.2 to 7.6 volts with a good battery. A low battery may pull this reading dow n to about 7 volts or so, but it should come up to about 7.3 volts once t he battery charges. A voltage much less than 7.2 with a charged battery m ay not be high enough to keep the battery fully charged. A voltage much a bove 7.6 volts will "boil" the water out of your battery - note: I use th e term "boil" in the sense that my father used it. The true reaction is y ou are electrolyzing the water into hydrogen and oxygen. However, the ter minology dad used conveys the sense of what happens, ie the water goes aw ay.
2. If the generator is putting out and the voltage is within the above ranges but the battery keeps "running down" (another Dad term), you may have a partially sulfated battery (can't take a full charge) or bad conne ctions to the battery posts, starter motor, etc.
3. If the generator is putting out but the voltage is out of the above ranges, the chances are pretty good that the generator is OK, but the re gulator is shot. Advice: Don't mess around trying to repair the old regul ator. Get a new one.
4. If the generator is at the battery voltage during the above test (a bout 6 volts, give or take), it could be one of several things:
(A) The voltage regulator could be bad. Get a piece of about 14 gage w ire, and temporarily attach one end to a good ground. Connect your volt m eter to the "A" post and ground and position it so you can read it. With the motor running at about 1,000 RPM, ***CAUTIOUSLY*** touch the wire fro m the battery to the "F" post on the generator. If you draw a sizable spa rk, and you see the volt meter jump, replace the regulator. (CAUTION: thi s test will cause the generator to go to maximum output. DON'T LEAVE THE WIRE ON THE TERMINAL FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME. Just spark it and look for t he volt meter to react. A much safer test involves making up a socket wit h a 60 watt 110 volt light bulb and some suitable wires. Remove the wires from both posts and tape them up. Attach one of the wires from your test light to a good ground. Attach the other wire from the test light to the "A" post. Ground the "F" post to a good ground. Start the motor and obse rve the light. It should begin to glow at about 1,500 RPM if the generato r is good. If it does, replace the regulator.
(B) The generator could have a problem. If the above test does not cau se the voltmeter to kick, or it fails to make the 60W bulb glow, you coul d have an open field or the brushes could be worn out. Shut off your moto r, and remove both wires from the generator (be sure to label them so you can get them back right later on).
(1) Measure the *resistance* between the "F" terminal and the "A" Term inal It should be somewhere around a half an ohm. In practical terms, a r eading near zero is OK. If you get very high resistance, the fields could be open.
(2) Measure the resistance between the "F" terminal and the frame of t he generator. It should be very high (greater than 100,000 ohms.) If it i s low, the field circuit is shorted.
(3) Inspect the brushes for excessive ware. Note: This is the cause of about 95% of generator failures. It is easiest to remove the generator f rom your vehicle to do this. Once you have it on the bench, remove the du st cover (it's a band of thin steel that is held in place by a clamp scre w) from the Brush inspection slots. Use a wire hook (an old coat hanger c an be bent to make one) and lift the brush tension spring, and then gentl y lift the brush out of the holder by pulling on the braided lead. The br ush should be at least a half an inch long. If it is shorter than that, y ou will need to replace them. If you need to replace the brushes, it is b est to disassemble the generator and check the commutator for ware. The c ommutator is the arrangement of copper bars with lots of heavy wires sold ered to them. To disassemble the generator:
[1]. Remove both brushes and temporarily hold them and the springs out of the way by pulling the brushes partially out of the brackets and lowe ring the spring down on the side of the brush to clamp the brush between the spring and the side of the bracket.
[2]. Remove the two long bolts that run entirely through the generator .
[3]. Using a screwdriver and a small hammer, gently separate the back cap of the generator from the body. Note: You should work from side to si de, as there is a bearing in the cap that supports one end of the armatur e.
[4]. Use the screwdriver and hammer to gently separate the front cap f rom the case. Pull the armature and the front plate assembly out of the g enerator body.
[5]. Remove the brushes from the body. Be careful not to loose the scr ews.
[6]. Remove the nut from the shaft that holds the pulley on the shaft, and remove the pulley. Be careful not to loose the key that fits between the shaft and the pulley!
[7]. Slip the front end plate off of the shaft. You will now have the armature free so you can work on it.
[8]. Inspect the commutator. If it is rough or worn, it should be turn ed in a lathe. It is best to let a good automotive electric shop do this for you, as you can do some serious damage to the commutator if you don't know what you are doing. While you have the armature in the shop, have t hem test it on a "growler."
[9]. Inspect the field coils (they are inside the housing, or body) fo r damaged or broken wires, or chaffed insulation. They can be replaced, b ut it takes a considerable amount of effort with a ***BIG*** screwdriver to remove them from the body. This is also a job for the good people at t he auto electric shop. Not that you can't do it, just that they have the tools.
[10]. Inspect the bearings. To remove the front bearing, remove the sc rews from the bearing retainer, remove the retainer with the front felt w asher. After that, press out the bearing and the back felt washer. The re ar bearing is pressed into the rear cap, and is usually replaced by repla cing the cap. It is good for a lot of miles, as it gets relatively little ware.
[11]. Test the brush holders for shorts to ground. Measure the resista nce between each holder and the body. The resistance should be above 100, 000 ohms.
[12]. Inspect the brush holders and springs for distortion, bent or cr acked parts, etc.
[13]. Clean everything in diesel oil or solvent, and blow dry.
[14]. Reassemble in the reverse order. When you install the front bear ing, pack it about half full with a high quality multi-purpose grease. Pu t a bit of grease inside the back bearing, but do not use too much or it will get into the commutator/brush area. A thin coat is sufficient. You w ill have to turn the front bracket until the little dowel pin lines up. I nstall new brushes, even if the old ones look OK. As long as you have gon e this far, you might as well replace the parts that are the most likely to fail. Be careful when poking the bolts through the body so that you do n't damage the field coils.
After you reinstall everything, you will have to "polarize" the genera tor. Use a piece of 14 gage wire, and briefly touch between the "B" or "B AT" and "A" or "ARM" terminals on the voltage regulator. You should draw a spark. One second is long enough.
? wrote I have no voltage out of my generator post to ground. I first referenced my battery which read 6.11 volts ( and yes I am using a true R MS Fluke meter). Sound like new generator time.
Jerry Not necessarily. Most generators can be repaired, no need to thi nk about new. Also, you can have a bad regulator. Oh, I forgot to add one thing to check to the list. Be sure that the base of your regulator is w ell grounded... A little rust there can really mess things up!
Rick LeBlanc wrote: These tests are from my service manual:
1) Disconnect the generators armature cable at the regulator. Connect one lead of your voltmeter to the regulator terminal marked "armature" an d with the engine running, ground the other lead. You should get 6v or ne ar.
2) Or, if you have an ammeter, remove the armature and battery leads f rom the regulator and connect your ammeter between them. Remove the "fiel d" lead from the regulator and while operating at idle speed, touch the f ield lead to the regulator base. Increase the speed noting the charging r ate (do not exceed rated output of the generator). The generator is bad i f the output will not build up.
3) Here's another way. Disconnect the "field" and "armature" cables at the generator. Connect a wire from the "field" terminal to ground and us e a 60 watt, 110 volt test light to ground out the "armature" terminal. T he light should glow at 1500 rpm, if you haven't electrocuted yourself fi rst.
Return to MenuMVP The Herb Farmwrote: I will be replacing the wiring in my '53 W agon when it comes back from the paint shop. The cloth wiring is shot, an d I don't want to start any forest fires. Anyone know where to get these clamp-on bulb contacts? I could use shrink-wrap on the old terminals and splice 'em to new wire but some of them are corroded beyond rehab. Any id eas?
Bernie Daily wrote: Get a catalog from Rhode Island Wiring Service 401 -789-1955. You'll swear someone sent you a Christmas Catalog!
Jerry Adams wrote: I have run into the same problem. I tried several t hings.
(1) Salvaging the old contact by prying it open with an awl... Not muc h success.
(2) Making my own from 1/4" brazing rod using the file and drill press technique. They work great, but it is pretty time consuming. A lathe wou ld make short work of it, but a file takes forever, as the teeth keep get ting loaded up by the brass.
(3) Buying a replacement insert at the local parts store and splicing it onto the feed wire. This proved to be the method I used for Jenifer, a lthough it is not very authentic looking.
If you are doing a true restoration, you will have to look for an orig inal wiring harness with the sockets in place. If you are only looking to make your jeep drivable, I would go with the replacement socket insert s pliced onto a new feed wire. By all means replace the old wiring. It is p robably insulated with a natural rubber compound that gets very brittle w ith age.
While we are on the subject of wiring, watch out for the &(*&^ $%^$#%*&^ modern sockets. Unlike the old types which are plated brass the new ones have some sort of plating over a steel shell. I have a util ity trailer that I made several years ago that sits in the driveway. We t oss big tree trimmings, etc. into it. When it gets full, I cart it to the local dump. I have had to replace two sets of tail lights when the socke ts rusted too badly to make good contact any more. And, no, they aren't " El Cheapo" fixtures - I try to buy Grote' if I can find them - they seem to be slightly better made than the average parts store units. ARRUUGGGGH HHHH! There, I feel better now.
Mitch Utseywrote: There is a type of grease used in electronics that w ill solve that problem. Unfortunately, I do not remember what it is calle d.
Jerry Adams wrote: I think you're thinking (hummm... awkward construct ion) of Silicone Heat Sink Grease. It's used to mount transistors, etc. Y es, it would work. So will a dab of any soft grease like the Lubriplate t hat comes in a tube. Unfortunately, I got lazy and didn't bother to take the cover off of the new fixture and lube the bulb. Big mistake. I did lu be the third set of sockets, and they have lasted for over five years now . Still makes me mad that, even though I would be willing to pay the diff erence, I can't buy a fixture with decent sockets in it. I have found tha t there are solid brass fuse holders and sockets available at a local mar ine hardware store. Santa Barbara is on the coast with a man made harbor and lots of yachts, so there are three marine hardware stores down by the waterfront. I pay more, but I like the quality. I wish I could find the same type of stuff at my friendly local parts store.
Dave Blackmon wrote: I be bettin' this is dielectric grease......
Bernie Daily wrote: Any NAPA story has it.
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KAISER SUPERSONIC VS THE WILLYS L-226
? wrote I originally wrote a message for information abour the possible differences between the Kaiser Supersonic and the Willys L-226. The only response I have found was in answer to Joseph Dante who had a s imilar question regarding his CJ2A (and about 40 messages about the diffe rence between left and right hand threads...DUH). Seriously, in answer to Merl's attached question regarding S/Ns and the possibility of Sears par ts replacements, the S/N on the block of my engine is FW17036. NOW, can I possibly get some serious answers regarding the information I have to gi ve the folks at the parts counters when I ask for a re-build kit for the beast???
Bernie Daily responded: If your engine is a flathead six with the dist ributor sticking right up through the head, it is the Continental 6, the L-226, same as the Kaiser. If you can find a copy of "The Last Onslaught On Detroit" it has a great history of that engine. Walck's and Mendetz ha ve all the parts you need. NAPA also has them, as well as most fork truck dealers. Prices are pretty much the same so support the hobby guys if yo u can.
Rick LeBlanc responded: Testy, testy. You'll have to be patient with u s as we're all here to learn as well. Unbelievably, I have a '58 Chiltons manual. It appears you have a transplant form a 1950 Frazer car (of Kais er-Frazer) as those engine serial numbers started in '50 at F-M1001 ("K" prefix for Kaiser, "F" for Fraser). These numbers should have been locate d on a pad on the left front corner of engine block and on a plate on lef t side of the block. Kaiser engines didn't interchange from '51 to '54 so I believe these to be different then the '50. Also, rebuild kit numbers are different between the Willys 6 and Kaiser-Frazer 6's. I have an explo ded pictorial of the engine assembly, I scan it and send it to you if you like. BTW, the '54 Kaiser Manhattan had an optional McCullough superchar ger developing a whopping 140hp@3800 rpm. Wouldn't that look cool in your Wagon, eh? I would keep that engine you have if for nothing more then ma intaining your Grandfather's legacy and with a little patience and resear ch, you should be able to find the correct parts for it.
Jim Bartley? wrote: Looking at a 55 Willys pickup, and since I already own a 53 Kaiser Manhatten, I contacted the Kaiser Fraser Owners Club Int ernational (KFOCI) --seems that the 226 flatheads have many similarities, Super Sonic almost3D Super Hurricane. They sure sound similar. They hav e a NAPA parts list for some surprisingly cheap parts readily available f or K-F-Willys cars if you know the right part number to ask for--after al l, K-F-W bought a lot of parts from other suppliers rather than produce t hem themselves. With some research, you might find that they fit the Jeep s too. The KFOCI site would be useful for Willys owners as lots of people are interested in both--and yes, some people have swapped the L-226 SS/S H engines both ways it seems. You can look in at: http://users.ewa.net/kf ads/index2.htm scroll down on the left gets you KFW Chat, also KFOCI has some interesting links
Return to MenuRichard Grover wrote: I readily admit, I'm no master mechanic. I d idn't take auto shop in high school, and while other guys were fixing up their 57 Chevy's, I was singing in the choir, taking advanced math, and i n general being a nerd (except lettering in track). I assume many of you know more than I do about auto mechanics, and this is frequently borne ou t by responses to my posts and other notes. But I have lapped my valves w ith considerable benefit, so for those of you that are unfamiliar with th e process, let me explain. (Anyone else with knowledge is welcome to jump in and correct me or fill in the thin places.) My engine was running ver y rough. A compression test showed 90, 115, 60, 50, so basically it was r unning on 1 1/2 cylinders. I had adjusted the intake valves about a year before, but didn't do the exhaust valves because I didn't dare pull the e xhaust manifold (on account of the badly rusted studs and nuts). Someone has since told me he adjusted his exhaust valves without pulling the mani fold, but he admitted space was really tight.
I removed the head from my F4-134 to find mildly burnt valves, with th e exhaust being a little worse than the intakes, as I would have expected with my neglect of them. If a valve doesn't seal tight, a small amount o f hot combustion gases will escape. This high-pressure, hot gas erodes th e surface of the valve and seat, leading to what is called burnt valves. Burnt valves don't seal tight, so the condition compounds itself. Looking at the beveled edge of the valves, I could see irregular dark blotches, not smooth shiny metal.
I got a lapping kit from Checker for less than $10, which consisted of a wooden stick with suction cups on each end and two tins of abrasive co mpound: coarse and fine. With the valve springs removed, the valves are f ree to come out. It takes a valve spring compressor tool to relieve tensi on of the springs so you can remove the clips that hold the springs to th e valves.
I scraped off carbon deposits from the valves. I put a little lapping compound (about the consistency of toothpaste) on the valve surface, then put it in the head (or block for exhaust valves). I used a suction cup o n the flat face of the valve and by twirling the stick between the palms of my hands, spun the valve in its seat. I used coarse first and then fin e on the exhaust valves, but only fine on the intakes. I checked the surf ace of the valve and matching seat from time to time and repeated the pro cess until each valve looked good.
When I got the engine back together, the compression was 112, 115, 115 , 80. Number 4 cylinder has some bad scratches, perhaps made by a broken ring or a wrist pin that came out. Now I'm running on 3 1/2 cylinders. So me of the improvement could have been accomplished by a valve adjustment, but the lapping polishes the valve and seat, eliminating minor irregular ities in the mating surfaces, leading to a tighter seal.
The 134 engines originally had a valve seat cut directly into the cast block. This metal is too soft and wears rapidly, especially with unleade d gas. My engine had been fitted with hardened valve seat inserts. Any ma chine shop can do this for you if your engine has not yet had this done. A seat insert cost about $5, but you have to cut a land in the block and press the seat in. I was glad to learn that someone had already done this on my engine.
The lapping could be done in a day, except in my case I broke a stud, then broke a screw extractor, then broke several carbide bits, and eventu ally put a helicoil and new stud in. I spent several days. Lapping valves is as old as the internal combustion engine. I've been told the owner's manual of the Model-T recommended lapping on a regular schedule, maybe on ce a year. A valve job at a machine shop puts a precise bevel on the valv e and seat surfaces which is superior to what you can do with lapping. Af ter you lap the valves a few times, you will have a groove in the seat wh ich is not desirable, so you'll have to have them ground and or replaced.
If a valve is seriously burnt, it must be replaced. Lapping is the lea st costly, least effective and easiest repair to burnt valves. I'd guess (and this is only a guess since I haven't done it) that if you adjust you r valves regularly (once a year?) and lap them when compression indicates it is necessary, you can go quite a bit longer between valve jobs.
Return to MenuBernie Daily wrote: I replaced the two adjacent exhaust valves on my '56 Pickup. It wasn't hard to find a local garage that would make a ho use call with the valve grinder. He wanted ten bucks, I gave him twenty. he liked looking at the old car stuff. http://www.frontiernet.net/~dailyo ps/main.html Lapping valves leaves a wider seat than machining so the val ve will run hotter and require servicing sooner. Remember when I said not to take your truck apart. Here's an example. Rather than take the engine to the shop I brought the shop to the engine. If I had removed the engin e the whole thing could have snowballed and I might not be driving it tod ay.
Jerry Adams Responded: Very interesting approach. I use to see a guy d riving around in a 3/4 ton pickup who advertized that he was a mobile aut omotive repair shop, but I haven't seen him for several years. I never ha d need of his services, and I don't know what happened to him. It sounds like a good way to get some simple stuff done, or something like a valve job that needs special equipment. I agree that hand lapping a valve tends to leave a wider seat, and, yes, it can cause valves to run hotter if th ey have a wide seat. I think that the practice developed at a time when e ngines didn't produce that much horsepower, and the valves tended to run cool anyway. Interesting post, thanks for the idea!
Return to MenuKen wrote: Does anyone know how to figure out what year an engine is? I have a L 134 in my 50 stake body that I know is not original (becau se I have the original in itty bitty peices). hollowel@aud.alcatel.com (M erl) responded: Since nobody else responded about the engine thing I'll g ive it a try. Remember though, I'm not a pickup guy... Conventional wisdo m on engine # and serial # matching for early CJs is that the L-head engi ne serial #s for CJ-2As started (at least in mid '46) out close to the sa me as the vehicle's serial #, then as replacement engines were shipped th e spread between the CJ's serial # and the engine's # got wider and wider . For early CJ-2As the numbers should be fairly close (within a few hundr ed), for late 2As the spread should be wider. I don't know if ANY of this applies to the Willys Pickups, but here's a quote from Todd Paisly on L- head engines as they were put into the CJ-2A in reference to the same que stion about a mid '46 CJ-2A...
Ken Also, another guy I talked to that is not on this list said to ask anyone if they knew the correct part number for the 1946 CJ2A engine. Wa s it WO-A1534 or WO-641049D ?
Todd Paisley A-1534 is a part number for the MB cylinder head. But it is not marked A-1534, so don't bother looking for the number on the head. (It is cast 639660.) 641049 is a Camshaft Gear Thrust Plate Spacer for a 4-63 wagon. This information is from the actual lists used by the factor y. Your serial number is in a transition period and at this moment in tim e, it is not known for certain what your engine casting should be. The en gine number should be within a few hundred of your serial number of 41XXX . (I'm not going to post the skew rate (the rate at which the engine numb er deviates from the Jeep's serial number) at this time because that info rmation is still being assembled and I don't want to "taint" any current research by posting premature numbers.)
There were at least 4 versions of the engine in your time frame. Casti ng numbers of 638632 (MB mold) and the 641087 casting. Engine serials num bers for the CJ-2A started out being stamped on the side on the block lik e the MB. These blocks (other than having "CJ2A-" instead of "MB-") are i dentical to the MB blocks. At some point very early in '46, the serial nu mbers moved to the top of the engine block. The area on the top of the bl ock between the cylinder head and the water pump was enlarged to accept t he new engine stamping method. But the engine numbers remained "CJ2A-XXXX X". The next generation block is what Jeff and I call the "clock block" b ecause of the clock casting where the month/day casting is. This had a po inter pointing to a semicircle of circles to show the time of day it was cast, with the month/day underneath. This block was short lived because a t some point, this block was discarded in favor of the 641087 casting. Th is is what Jeff and I call the "J" block, because around this time period , the engine serial numbers changed from "CJ2A-XXXXX" to "JXXXXX". To add even more confusion, Willys changed from a timing chain driven cam to a fiber gear also in this time period. There also exists engines with combi nations of the raised oval areas (like the MBs) with the small top area, but still stamped on the top. Also, the old 638632 castings intermixed wi th the new 641087 blocks for a time period. It is rather confusing until after mid -1946 when things were ironed out and became more standard. Rig ht now until more research and data is collected, your best bet (if you a re going for the 100% correct restoration) is to find an engine with a en gine serial number as close to your Jeep's serial number. If I had to be a guessing man, I would say it would be 638632.
Cylinder head is easy. It should be a 640161 without the raised ribs. Heads also have date castings, so you have to get a better feel for the t ime frame your Jeep was made. The axle assembly dates can give you a roug h guestimate within 3 months when your Jeep was made. If your Jeep has it s original transmission, it also has a casting date and assembly date. Be ll housings also have a casting date...... P.S. If anyone wants to send t heir engine number and casting information to me, that would be great. Th e more data collected, the more accurate estimation can occur!
Return to MenuRick Stivers wrote: Hi guys, I borrowed this posting from "Jeep+wi llys" news group because I didn't know the answers to his questions. Sinc e I'm always on the search for new info, I thought maybe you guys could e nlighten me. Where are the timing marks on this motor and how do you find them?
Jerry Adams responded: If you have a '46, they are on the flywheel. Lo ok on the passenger side. Just over the starter there will be a hole in t he sheet metal cover of the flywheel. In the original configuration, ther e is a metal cover over the hole. Move the cover, and have a friend "bump " the starter. Eventually, you will see the timing marks. They are a line with the letters "TDC" near it, and a second line with the letters "IGN" near it. The timing is correct when the mark on the fly wheel cover line s up with the "IGN" line (use a timing light, or course).
Merl wrote: I would think that on a '57 F-134 the timing marks would b e on the
crank pully and timing chain cover. The L-heads had them on the flywhe el (at least the early ones do).
Richard Grover wrote: On my F4-134, there are timing marks on the flyw heel as described by others. These are not visible due to minor obstructi ons, like the starter motor, distributor, generator, oil filter, air filt er and battery which are on the right side of the engine compartment. Wit h the battery, air filter and starter motor out of there, I can see them just fine, but of course I can't start it to adjust the timing with these missing. ;-) I think I took a picture of the timing marks on the flywhee l. If I can find it, I'll scan it for others to see. My engine has no tim ing marks on the front pulley, except the one I made myself. :-)
Rick Stivers wrote: If anyone is interested, this procedure will allow you to create accurate timing marks on the front crankshaft pulley/harmo nic balancer of any overhead valve engine. Providing you have a visible p lace to install a timing marker. You will need to buy or create an accura te piston stop tool. To make one you will need the following items:
One old spark plug from your engine
One 3/8" course thread tap (Fine thread will work)
One 5/16" Drill Bit
Power Drill
One 3/8" flat washer
One 3/8" X 3" all threaded bolt
One #/8" Jam nut (threaded to fit bolt)
Break off the electrode wire from the bottom of the spark plug and gri nd or file smooth. Break, chip, or drill the ceramic center from spark pl ug (CAUTION The ceramic can and will break off and chip with extreme forc e, therefore I recommend wearing a full face shield if available. Goggles will do in a pinch but be very careful.) Once the ceramic is removed dri ll the center of the spark plug using the 5/16" drill bit and tap using t he 3/8" tap. Grind the sharp edges off the end of the bolt. Screw the jam nut onto the bolt all the way to the head and install the washer under i t. Screw the bolt into the top of the spark plug and adjust the jam nut s o that the bolt extends from the bottom about 3/4". You now have a fully functional piston stop. I suppose the next question would be, "What do I want this thing for?" To stop the piston of course.
First to prevent possible catastrophic failure to your engine disconne ct the battery. Accidentally engaging the starter motor would be very bad so why take the chance.
Locate a place where you can permanently mount a sheet metal pointer o ver the pulley. It must be mounted so that you can see both it and the pu lley with all accessories installed and the engine running. Determine whi ch cylinder is the number one cylinder. And remove the spark plug. Rotate the engine by hand to lower the piston in the cylinder. Install the pist on stop and snug the jam nut. The piston stop must be firmly mounted to p revent erroneous readings. Gently rotate the engine clockwise until it st ops (do not force it). Mark the pulley at the pointer with paint or chalk . Rotate the engine counter clockwise until the engine stops again. Mark the pulley again. Measure the distance on the pulley between these two ma rks. The point on the pulley half way between them is Number one TDC (It does not matter which stroke you are on). If the marks are too close toge ther or too far apart (should be about 1" to 2") you can adjust the jam n ut and bolt for a better reading. (CAUTION: Make sure the piston is down before making any adjustments to the piston stop) Take your readings 2 or 3 times to ensure you did not make an error. Clearly mark TDC so that yo u will have it in the future.
Once TDC is determined a simple protractor can be used to mark any add itional degree marks (like the proper time) you wish to add. CAUTION: (Ca n you tell I screw up a lot?) Remember to remove the piston stop and inst all the spark plug immediately so you don't forget and cause serious dama ge to your precious engine.
If you already have timing marks you can use this to check them for ac curacy. I first used this technique on a 350 Chevy to determine if the ha rmonic balancer marks were correct. It was 13 degrees off because the out side of the balancer had spun. Took me a while to figure out what had gon e wrong on with my tune up. Since the spark plug is not located over the piston in a flat head, this will not work for the L-head engines. However , this will work on these engines if the head is off. You would need to c reate a piston stop plate that would bolt on over the cylinder with a sto p bolt. Just in case somebody out there thinks I created this wonderful t echnique forget it. This is the first part of the procedure for dialing i n a cam shaft.
Return to MenuF-HEAD CUTTING OUT AT 3/4 THROTTLE
Rick Stivers wrote: Do you think the cut out at 3/4 throttle is th e carb? I'm interested in at what RPM it is cutting out.
Jerry Adams responded: I would check:
1. Bad fuel pump.
2. Clogged fuel filter.
3. Float level too low in carb.
Merl wrote: If its not timing or another ignition related problem (plu gs, points, condenser, etc), I would think it would have to be fuel deliv ery. My 2A/L-134 w/stock carb had similar problems due to a clogged fuel filter caused by a rusty tank. As someone else mentioned it could also be the carb's float. In my garage its "try the cheap and easy thing first" which would be to put on a new fuel filter, and if that doesn't work move to the more complex solutions.
Return to MenuPOSITIVE CRANKC ASE VENTILATION
Merl wrote: Took the 2A for a long drive yesterday (about 100 mile s all together). My oil leak situation has vastly improved and now I'm do wn to taking care of the minor leaks. Current setup:
My air filter isn't stock. Its a paper filter mounted to the driver's side fender, smallish chrome (yuck) top and bottom with the filter elemen t exposed and a hole for mounting the crank case vent (which is a 3/4" he ater hose coming from the top of the oil filler neck). The problem is tha t after a long drive like this at high RPM I get a noticeable amount of o il coming up into the air filter from the vent hose, dripping down throug h the paper and onto the fender.
Questions:
-Could this indicate that my oil pressure is too high? I have no idea if my oil pressure gauge is stock (though its old enough to look it), but it reads about 20 at idle and about 60 between 2500 and 3000 RPMs. -Or i s this a normal situation that going back to the oil bath air filter woul d eliminate? This couldn't be the oil-bath filter's method of replenishme nt...could it?
Another question:
How is the oil filler tube secured into the block? I'm getting some le akage there where the base of the filler tube goes into the block and the tube tends to rotate on its own a bit as the engine vibrates it.<<
Tom Lee responded: Hi Merl, It sounds like your PCV system is not draw ing air correctly. Yes, the L-head engine had one of the first PCV system s. The suction begins at the threaded port on the front of intake manifol d. Filtered air is drawn through the oil bath air cleaner and then throug h a hose attached to the top of the oil filler neck then through the cran kcase and then through the tube that comes out of the side of the valve c over and attaches to the port on the intake manifold. The oil bath oil cl eaner is not replenished by the pcv system.......although that is an inte resting concept. I have a diagram of the PCV system I can scan you later.
Jerry Adams wrote: I think that your problem is related to a clogged, defective, or missing PCV valve. It is probably "blowby" from the engine. It is normal for a motor to have some blowby pass the piston rings, and this gas has to be vented somehow. Your motor should have a PCV valve in a metal line that runs from a special fitting on one of the push rod cove rs to the intake manifold.
Another question:
How is the oil filler tube secured into the block? I'm getting some le akage there where the base of the filler tube goes into the block and the tube tends to rotate on its own a bit as the engine vibrates it.
It is just a slip fit. The end of he tube could be bent out of round. Mine was. It is fairly easy to straighten it out with a hammer and a larg e wood dowel I used a chunk of an old closet pole. I put the piece of clo set pole in my vice, and used it as an "anvil" to support the inside of t he tube. A little judicious tapping with a hammer and it came out looking pretty good. The excess oil you find around the filler tube could be the "blowby" trying to escape. I definitely think you need to check your PCV valve. Oh, one more thing - the top of the tube should be secured to the engine with a metal bracket - it's too weak a joint to support the fille r tube by itself..
Merl I have no idea. I've had that PVC valve off before, and I know th at I cleaned it out to the point that it'd pass air. That was probably 10 00 miles ago. It wouldn't surprise me if you were right about the worn ri ngs. Here recently as a part of my anti-oil leak campaign I shot a little RTV around the inside edge of the oil filler cap on the dipstick. It was very loose, clattered around a lot, and I had been noticing some oil acc umulation on the under side of the hood directly above it. That's probabl y what caused so much oil vapor condensation in the air filter, I effecti vely *lost* my vented oil filler cap. I'm going to forward the image Rick LeBlanc sent me showing the PVC and vent path to those that asked for it (don't want to clutter the list).
Return to MenuJoseph wrote: Please allow me to join in. The engine in my CJ2 A also has a name tag that says "SUPER SONIC" is this not a stoke engine? I am about to haft to rebuild it as well. I preformed the wet/dry compre ssion test that was posted a couple of weeks ago and discovered that I ha ve burnt valves on 2 cylinders and worn or stuck rings on the 2 with any compression.:-( Thanks in advance.
Rick Stivers Wrote: Joseph, has your engine been running for a while? If not don't be so ready to toss in the towel. Many times the rings in th ese engines that have been setting for a long time will be sticking and g iving you false reading. If it has been sitting I would give it at least 500 miles to work it's way free. Is this an L-head motor (Flat Head)? If so the standard wet and dry compression test may be invalid. Of these eng ines the spark plug sets over the valves instead of the cylinders. Puttin g oil in the spark plug holes only dumps oil on the valves. This can caus e a burnt valve to seal, thus giving you the indication that you have bad rings (pressure goes up). The only way I know of to ensure you get the r ings oiled on these engines is to only put the oil into the cylinders at TDC for each cylinder and even then it can require a fairly large amount of oil. It might help to raise the left side of the vehicle so that the o il can run down hill into the cylinders. All of this is from memory on my L-134 over 11 years ago so if someone thinks I'm wrong feel free to say so. I don't get my feelings hurt easily.
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Merl wrote: Once again, Rick Grover has made it easy on us all and has a *very* cool graph representing speed vs. RPM in both direct drive and OD. Go to http://www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys/gear.html the char t is at the bottom of the page. According to his chart 30 MPH should be a bout 1800 RPMs in 3rd, or 2700 in 2nd. Just as a side note, I've got a li ttle tach tie-wrapped to my steering column and have found Rick's graph t o be very accurate.
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QUESTION - ENGINE SWAPS
James Roney I think that you have all of the best pieces to build an a wesome four wheel drive truck that can be both reliable and powerful.
So many of my peers remove the wimpy jeep engine to run the vastly sup erior small V-8 engine. Hey...sometimes driveshafts twist off! I wrote ea rlier of my twisted axle, broken tranny, blown up Willys days, and loved every one of them.
I really think that you should borrow or ride in a bone stock one. 55M PH comes at great expense to the little engine, and they wander like you can't believe. Big tires and small brakes make it even worse.
Since yours will NEVER be a showpiece in the stock class, I recommend that you consider a personalized Willys that is "improved" over the stock one. I think that keeping a stock appearance is crucial in maintaining t he correct "look and feel" of the Willys. A huge lift is also not necessa ry. The pickup engine compartment is sufficiently large to accommodate th e small v-8, and an adequate radiator. The purist will want an F-head, or maybe the I-6, but a very tame SBC (small block chevy) is the most relia ble, easiest to maintain and cheapest power-plant you will find. I don't like my distributor in my lap either, but that's a symptom of a poor inst allation. If you measure the SBC with an early short water pump, and acce ssories, I think that there is sufficient room if you relocate the radiat or.
You need a new radiator anyway, and the front cross-member is hardly n ecessary if you reinforce the frame for the vastly better Saginaw steerin g. Putting in a deeper cross flow radiator will help to center the fan. D o NOT think about an electric fan. The best on the market today will pull 2700 CFM. A bone stock 4 blade 17" fan will do at least 4000 at idle. In vest in a good fitting shroud.
The stock brakes are a disaster, and a new tandem master cylinder is a must. If you choose swing pedals, the ones from a late CJ are a good cho ice. The stock pedals suck. They squeak, rattle, and bind, and require se rvicing. (that seems to be true of most of the stock components...) The s ervice interval on a stock Willys is 1000 miles. get your grease gun, you r brake adjusting tool, and be ready to spend a couple of hours on your b ack. Valve adjustments are no picnic either.
Sure, I'll take some heat for these vile words, but sometimes we Willy s owners tend to romanticize the original vehicle. The FACT is, that many Willys pickups are around today, not because they are indestructible, bu t because they were parked in a barn (or field) because that's where they were towed to. (or quit)
Build a vehicle that you can enjoy, but not one that is going to be a burden. Spend the money, but spend it once, and spend it wisely. Many of the guys on this list LOVE their trucks, so listen, but not too closely. (not even to me!)
I worked for two months last year pulling the 289 V8 out of my 1946 CJ -2a. I went to excruciating pain to replace the firewall, and found the o riginal engine mounts, radiator, grille, and L-head engine. I found a fac tory t-98 four speed. I pulled the custom disc brake Dana 60 rear, and re placed with a full float Dana 44, pulled the Dana 44 front and replaced w ith a model 25. I put original 7.00x15 tires back on, and replaced the po wer Saginaw with Manual Saginaw. I gave it to my dad, because he said tha t's what he wanted. I can't stand to drive it.
In my garage now, you will find a 1952 Willys M38 with a 1992 Mustang 5.0 SEFI stuffed under the hood.
My 1953 Willys Pickup is currently powered by a 1974 Ford 6-300, T-18 four speed, Warn OD, Dana 44 front, 60 rear, 4.88 gears.
...I think I'll drop a big block 460 in it.
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Ken wrote: Well after putting off the issue and breaking down for the 10th time (seems like it) I finally removed my tank tonight. The inside is not metal looking but more a brown/black. I figure this is what kept clogging my inlet inside the tank. Every time I broke down I would blow the fuel line out and be on way for weeks. I have a 10 gallon tank l ocated in the right rear.
Can someone comment on the following:
I guess there is no fix for the tank?
Are the replacement tanks metal or plastic? Do they mount the same?
Fuel lines are steel...a little harder than brake lines to install? Us e shorter lengths with couplers? Can you /should you use rubber fuel line s at tank or carb?
Frank Wood wrote: I called Gas Tank Renu, they advertise in Hemmings, and got an over the phone estimate of $250-$300 for their patented gas ta nk restoration process. Some sort of PVC coating inside and out. Comes wi th a lifetime no leak guarantee. 1-800-997-3688 I haven't found a bolt on reproduction yet, has anyone else. That Willys place in Toledo said they would consider getting a poly reproduction fabbed up it there was enough interest. Said it would be around $350. How about all 122 of us call the m tomorrow and ask for repro. gas tanks. My original gas line is one soli d line, about 10 feet long with many bends. Rubber tubes at both ends. No inline filter. I assume this is OEM. Don't know where to find a replacem ent line. Has anyone installed a fuel pump back near the tank?
MVP The Herb Farm wrote: Eastwood Automotive sells a Gas Tank Sealer k it for $34.99. ( http://eastwoodco.com ). It consists of a chemical rust dissolver, a moisture displacer, and a tank sealer
Someone on this list made a post about a Ford/Chevy Van tank might fit ...I might be imagining this though. You could call that place in Ohio 12 2 times and disguise your voice each time. :-)
Straight steel fuel line can be purchased from most auto part stores. Eastwood also sells a tube bender for $35 or you might be able to rent/lo an one from AutoZone, single flares are all that is needed for fuel lines . I would use rubber tubing on both ends of the fuel line to prevent poss ible vibration fatigue to the steel fuel line.
Chris Croyle wrote: I was told this was the recommended place (at the tank) to install an electric fuel pump. The factory directions of my afte r-market fuel pump also recommend this. In fact, the inside of my frame h as a few factory holes that I mounted my fuel pump to (no drilling requir ed in my installation). The holes are located near the right tail light o f my PU. While your at it, buy one of those $5 disposable filters and mou nt it after the fuel pump. I mounted mine as follows: tank, short rubber fuel line 2ft or so, fuel pump, fuel filter, rest of steel fuel line. I h ave a Chevy 350 engine in my application and I'm not sure if that voids t he set-up for a stock Willys engine. How's your frame coming along Frank?
mitch utsey wrote: Sure there is. Find an Eastwood catalog, or look in the phone book. I have never had any problem with any of my vehicles wit h rubber lines, assuming you protect them from snag, heat, and abrasion.< /P>
Ken wrote: Once again I am impressed with the knowledge of this group! ! Thanks M.V. Percival for the tip on Eastwood! Can you believe I never k new about them and they are located 10 minutes from my house! The kits ar e still 34.99 which beats a new tank price, modifications, welding etc. I will let the group know how this kit works. HAS ANYBODY USED THIS PRODUC T YET???? THANKS
MVP The Herb Farm replied: Oh...you are going for the easy fix? We wer e counting on you to call that place in Ohio 122 times about the repro ta nks!!! Glad I could help, I learned about Eastwood from another member of this list. As Jerry says, that's what this list is all about...helping e ach other...with a little BS mixed in here and there.
Rick LeBlanc wrote: Just a note to add to the pile (of BS). I was in m y local radiator shop for some sand blasting and noticed his catalogue on replacement gas tanks. Very detailed including line drawings with dimens ions. These were all new repros and I was quite surprised at what was ava ilable. This may be an option for those on a budget or not obsessed with authenticity. These tanks retailed for around $150 Cdn average. Also avai lable were factory skid plates, sending units, tanks straps and all other tank related parts. I priced and recorded the dimensions of a early DJ t ank to mount in the rear of my 2a. Unfortunately the rear cross member on my frame is already committed to that space so it wouldn't quite fit.
David Macbeth wrote: I have an electric fuel pump mounted on the fende r-well of my 57 pickup. I put the inline filter just outside the tank so that as the pump pulls the fuel it cleans it before it gets to the line o r to the fuel pump. Works good for me. It is a 6 volt pump, by the way, t hat came from NAPA.
Ken wrote: A new tank for a PU can be obtained from Carl Walks in PA f or about $140 which INCLUDES the sending unit. Carl tells me that the thr ee bolt type work well. The single bolt side should be attached. The fill fits properly. Two pieces of extensions (plate steel with holes) will be needed to reach the other two bolt locations (THE TANK MUST BE MORE NARR OW). This only applies to pickups (sorry 2A's). Someday real soon I to ma y also own a 2A :)
Richard Grover wrote: I got a quote from a custom gas tank builder of $300 for a 14 gauge, 30 gallon tank to go into a Willys pickup. I got a F ord Econoline 22 tank from the junkyard for $20 and it looks like it will fit in my Willys pickup, *IF* I can move the left diagonal braces from t he bottom to the top of the frame. You can get a repro Ford tank for abou t $100 from someplace like JCW.
I got a tube of liquid steel for $2.29 that patched my old tank, so th e viability of the Ford tank remains unknown. :-)
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HEATING AND COOLING Return to Menu
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wohleb wrote: I have a 26 tooth Warn Overdrive but need a 29 t ooth. Any suggestions? Want to trade or????
astarcher wrote: I'd like to get an overdrive myself but haven't gotte n to the point where I've looked seriously at them yet. How can I tell wh at tooth count do I need for my transfer case? I don't have a 29 tooth to trade (and don't know which one I need yet) so what's "????" ? If I need the 26 tooth, I might be interested in
wohleb wrote: The Advanced Adapters Web page has a catalog that lists the warn overdrive exact replica and all technical info. They also have a n excellent tech line. Most output gears are the 26 tooth. I could change over my overdrive to 26 tooth but the part is pricey!
James Roney wrote: It's cheaper to just change the transfer case to 26 tooth model. In California, the going price is about $100.00 for a good used one. Advanced sells the change parts, but its pricey!
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Chris Croyle wrote: My turning radius in my 61 PU is not as sharp turning left as it is turning right. Is this true for all Spicer 25 4.88 stock axles and steering? I've already put a new steering kit in the shor t arm that goes from the outside of the frame to the left knuckle. I've r eplaced the entire left knuckle including top and bottom bearings...oh, a nd the lower kingpin. The only thing I didn't replace is the top and bott om racers in the knuckle. I haven't got to examining the right knuckle. T he only thing I can think of being a problem is the stabilizer steering s hock that is mounted on the tie rod & axle, or this is just a normal steering radius?
Wayne E LaMothe wrote: Mine does the same thing and I thought maybe a power steering conversion would quicken up the steering ratio thus rectif ying the situation. Have observed a lot of traffic on this site regarding power steering conversions for CJ models but has anyone done it right (s ubjective interpretation) on a pickemup?
Glenn Goodman wrote: I've got an M38A1 with the same axle. The mainten ance manual gives the turning radii for left and right. I do not remember the numbers off the top of my head, but there is a difference.
Jerry Adams wrote: From my copy of the Jeep Universal Service Manual:
"To avoid possible damage to the universal joints on the front axles o f 4-wheel drive vehicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. . . "
"The turning angle of 'Jeep' Universal models was changed effective wi th the following vehicle serial numbers: CJ-3B, 57348-35326; CJ-5, 57548- 48284; CJ-6, 57748-12497. All models CJ-2A, CJ-3A, and vehicles with seri al numbers lower than the above should have a turning angle of not more t han 23 (degrees) *** both left and right*** (emphasis mine) if equipped w ith Bendix joints, and not more than 29 (degrees) if equipped with Rzeppa joints. On vehicles with serial numbers higher than the above, the turni ng angle should not be more than 27-1/2 (degrees)."
From the above, I would infer that your axle should have the same turn ing radius in both directions. I would also assume that the angle would b e set at 27-1/2 degrees. Note the key words **infer** and **assume**. Doe s anyone have specifications that actually pertain to Chris' pickup?
Rick Stivers wrote: OK here's what I found in the "Service Manual For Jeep Utility Vehicles" Chapter M Paragraph M-14 page 202. "To avoid possi ble damage to the universal joints on the front axles of 4-wheel drive ve hicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. The drive vehicles sh ould have a turning angle of not more than 29 {degrees}. The angle is mea sured by placing the front wheels on turntables. The stop screw for setti ng the turning angle is shown in Fig. 253. To adjust the screw, it is nec essary to break the weld holding the screw in position. When the adjustme nt is made, reweld the screw in place to prevent any movement."
From what I can find there should be no reason (besides adjustment) fo r it to turn further one way than another. This said, I have to point out that my truck does the same thing. Sharper right than left, and it never reaches the stop bolts. Has anyone fixed this problem before?
Glenn Goodman wrote: I checked the maintenance manual for my M38A1, wh ich has the model 25 front end, and it indicates the minimum diameter rig ht turn is 49' 6" and left turn is 40' 0". Quite a difference. It seems t o me this is due to the design of the axle and not the design of the vehi cle. I don't think I'd be changing the angles on this by removing or cutt ing off the stop bolts. Gears and knuckles can take just so much stress.< /P>
Matt Phillimore wrote: From my mechanic's manual (Only covers up to 48 models, but who knows) Under steering troubles and remedies, it lists sh ort turning radius one side...with probable problems being:
Center bolt in spring sheered off
Axle shifted
Steering arm bent
Steering arm not properly located on steering gear.
That's all I can find. Might help, might not. but hey, that's what thi s list is for, right.
Jerry Adams wrote: Rick- Thanks for a good post. I think that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Assuming they are properly adjusted, the stop bolts would limit the turning radius to the maximum angle specif ied for the particular U-Joints installed in it. They would in all probab ility have the same turning radius both right and left. Since your truck is not hitting the stop bolts, something else is limiting the turning rad ius. I would look at:
1. Any bent steering parts? (Tie rods, etc.)
2. Is the axle itself bent?
3. Worn King Pins?
4. Is the steering properly centered? I don't know what kind of steeri ng box you have, but in my '2A, the Ross steering box has a high point wh ere the center of the sector movement is located. To be properly installe d, the wheels should be pointed straight ahead when the sector is at the high point (the middle of it's range of motion).
5. Bent, broken, or misaligned suspension.
Again, thanks for some good information.
Chris Croyle wrote: I finally remembered where I read about a steering problem
that Rick Grover had. He has it posted at: http://www.public.asu.edu/~ grover/willys/frax.html
Rick had a severely worn out Bendix universal joint. I wonder if the s teel balls in the universal joint can wear a groove that would cause the steering to get hung up at a particular steering point, thus causing the steering to not fully rotate? The steering arm sounds like a good answer to the steering problem too, but mine looks like it has been on my vehicl e since 1961 - but who knows?
Stephane Rousseau wrote: I'll relate a little adventure I had with my M-38 concerning turning and bendix joint.
I was out in the bush a few years back, and got stuck in a muddy rut.( Yeah that's right, a jeep stuck in mud, wow that rarely happens to me. LO L) So anyway, I tried to steer out of it by cranking the steering all the way, but it was wedged against the wall of the rut, so the pitman arm sn apped and each wheel went its own way and in the process, as I was also a pplying gas, the bendix axle joint snapped as well. Well the jeep slept i n the bush that night and dad courier me a spare pitman arm and a set of wagner free hubs. Quick replacement of steering and hub to free up the fr ont axle and I was out on my way home. This isn't all yet....
I was slowly driving along the trail home steering was kind of stiff b ut didn't think much of it. Driving down a steep hill the steering locked up to the right and over the hill and into the ravine we rolled. Jeep pr etty mangled four paws in the air but I was all right. Hand winched the j eep back on all fours and went to get a bigger four-by to pull me out of the pretty steep ravine. Worked at it a few hours and broke another pitma n arm in the process. So the jeep slept in the woods again that night whi le dad couriered another pitman arm(got a whole bunch from an old guy who had access to military supply). The next day get there to find out some F#$K A$%hole had taken pleasure in shooting my jeep with a shotgun.
To make a long story longer, I replaced the parts, got the jeep home i n low granny gear, patched her up back to pristine shape, the right side bendix joint was broken and jammed which caused the steering to lockup. T oday she's with a good soul, I hope, I sold her for seed money on the oth er jeeps and the willys truck.
Return to MenuTerry Kangas wrote: I've been told by a usually reliable source th at "POWER PUNCH" works great in the front steering knuckles. thick enough not to leak, but clings and lubricates everything. NAPA sells it.
Marshall Rimland wrote: I used Mobil 1 synthetic grease in my knuckles as well as the wheel Bearings. Only after complete cleanup of king-pin b earings, joints, wheel bearings, to avoid compatibility problems. All has been just fine for the last 6 months.
James Roney If you are good, you can do this conversion with littl e cutting, and a small amount of fabrication.
First, and foremost, go find the original column from a pre-72 dispatc h Jeep. (DJ-5) The column will come complete with all necessary U-joints, and lower link, and will accept your original Willys steering wheel, tur n signal switch, and has a horn/brush provision.
When you get your steering box, don't forget the rag joint and lower l ink. Nearly all GM passenger cars 1966-1980 will have it. The advantage i s the collapsible "double-D" shaft. I recommend that you install this saf ety device, as it could provide some protection it the event of a collisi on. You will need to "box" your frame horn, but that's a good idea for bo th sides anyway. The Advanced Adapters steering mount can be used, but it 's just as easy to fabricate your own out of 1/2" thick plate. You will n eed to buy a new tie rod and drag link, as well as the special tie rod en d with the hole in it. You can find it on a 47-71 CJ.
There is a small amount of welding involved here, so it's not trivial, but if done properly, I'm sure that you will be satisfied with the resul t. Avoid using a GM Column, because they look awful, and they really don' t "fit."
Merl wrote: Hey James, lots of good info here! Thanks. I've read up on the Saginaw conversion for my 2A (mostly just the Advanced Adapter's man ual), and I've got a couple of questions... The AA instructions specify u sing your existing column, cutting it off above the Ross box and welding the U-joint at this point. Sounds like you're saying that this can be avo ided by using the DJ-5 column, right?
Since my CJ-2A doesn't have original turn signals and you say that the DJ-5 column "will accept your original Willys <snip turn signal switc h", can I use the DJ-5 switch or is it on the wrong (i.e. right) side? It 'd sure be nice to have turn signals and horn built-in instead of "tacked on", but I'd like to retain a look similar to original. At least I'd lik e it to look old enough so that those that don't know won't ask. How's th e look of a DJ column as compared to other older model Jeeps? I assume th at the Saginaw box itself can't come from the same pre-72 DJ since it wou ld be right-hand drive rather than the normal left. Am I correct? As a ma tter of fact, I thought ALL pre-72 CJs were Ross...so now I'm confused... About the new tie-rod and drag link you mention...if I remember right th e pictures of the AA conversion shows a tie-rod from the box to the passe nger side knuckle, and a drag link from there over to the driver's side k nuckle. What you describe doesn't sound the same to me, could you explain ?
Jeff Interesting stuff, James, as usual. I've been looking at a means of updating the wagon's steering as well so here's a few questions and co mments. I believe the original vehicle that started this thread was a tru ck which I assume has a steering setup similar to the wagon, but differen t from the CJ's, etc. which has the steering gear in front of the axle if I recall correctly. Have I gotten lost? Is the idea that of putting a GM steering gear at the horn of a truck and then making the linkage with u- joints? That's some mighty tight, almost 90 deg, turns isn't it? It's als o a problem for me in clearing the V8 exhaust and PTO shaft. And, this is a lot of steering geometry to change so I'd suggest some care and though t to get it all done correctly. I prefer the steering geometry that you g et with the original setup on my wagon so I've been looking at ways to pu t a newer box there and keep the original column. I found a guy with and old Ford and he found that early 80's Toyota trucks use a power steering box that fits very nicely. He had to cut the bottom of the steering colum n and used a u-joint connection. It looked very clean and this is my plan at this point. I also plan on replacing the current linkage with a rod/r od-end setup. I am now interested in what the DJ column looks like as I d islike chopping up good original stuff. Also, my steering wheel isn't com ing of of my column. I assume it's just stuck from being on there so long . I'd welcome any helpful hints at getting it off. It looks like I'll hav e to fab some sort of puller setup.
Jeff wrote: Hey James, lots of good info here! Thanks. I've read up on the Saginaw conversion for my 2A (mostly just the Advanced Adapter's man ual), and I've got a couple of questions...
The AA instructions specify using your existing column, cutting it off above the Ross box and welding the U-joint at this point. Sounds like yo u're saying that this can be avoided by using the DJ-5 column, right?
James: YES! That is the beauty of the DJ column. The bottom of the col umn has a spline and bushing that accept the universal joint yoke and cro ss. It looks exactly the same as your column will look after cutting and welding etc, except that you will be able to service it, since its spline d and bolted instead of welded. (hey! Stronger, cheaper, and easier!)***< /P>
Jeff: Since my CJ-2A doesn't have original turn signals and you say th at the DJ-5 column "will accept your original Willys <snip turn signal switch", can I use the DJ-5 switch or is it on the wrong (i.e. right) si de?
James: It is on the correct side. Older style ones actually have a sel f-canceling wheel that rides on the steering wheel. You can also use the Signal Stat series 900 universal switch. ***
Jeff: It'd sure be nice to have turn signals and horn built-in instead of "tacked on",
James: The DJ horn brush is located at the top of the column, near the TS switch, and the wiring is integral with the Turn Signal wiring. Your existing Willys Wheel and horn button can be made to work.***
Jeff: but I'd like to retain a look similar to original. At least I'd like it to look old enough so that those that don't know won't ask. How's the look of a DJ column as compared to other older model Jeeps?
James: It looks like a steel tube that is the same diameter as your ex isting tube, except the base of the column has a bearing in it, and the t op does too. Your CJ column clamp will fit perfectly.***
Jeff: I assume that the Saginaw box itself can't come from the same pr e-72 DJ since it would be right-hand drive rather than the normal left. A m I correct?
James: Yep! It's backwards, and manual.***
Jeff: As a matter of fact, I thought ALL pre-72 CJs were Ross...so now I'm confused...
James: You should be...I meant to say 72-75 DJ...no, wait, now I'm con fused. You need to go shopping, but I'm pretty sure that 1960's DJ's will work. ***
Jeff: About the new tie-rod and drag link you mention...if I remember right the pictures of the AA conversion shows a tie-rod from the box to t he passenger side knuckle, and a drag link from there over to the driver' s side knuckle. What you describe doesn't sound the same to me, could you explain?
James: Semantics...The "tie rod" connects the left knuckle to the righ t knuckle. The "drag link" connects the pitman arm to the knuckle. In thi s case, a special "center socket tie rod connection" AA#716819 provides t he connection point, as there is only one hole in the knuckle. That speci al part is not special at all, and can be found on your -2A. The exploded view in the AA catalog is correct. The pitman arm from a GM passenger ca r will also work. (not special) ...but wait, there's more. If you decide to go with the power unit, there may be a space issue with the "rag joint " and the front cross-member. AA solved that with their spud shaft,#71783 5. If you find it's close, you might try the detroit universal style join t, which has a smaller OD. (72-86 CJ)I personally went with the Borgeson Universal, which has a 1.5" OD. It costs $90.00, but it's pretty.
Advanced Adapters is really good about selling portions of their kit, so this conversion should run you about $200, plus the box & pump. Wh ile you're molesting the DJ, get the tie rod ends as well, since they are usually free, and make excellent spares. (2 LH, +2RH)
Jeff: Interesting stuff, James, as usual. I've been looking at a means of updating the wagon's steering as well so here's a few questions and c omments.
I believe the original vehicle that started this thread was a truck wh ich I assume has a steering setup similar to the wagon, but different fro m the CJ's, etc. which has the steering gear in front of the axle if I re call correctly. Have I gotten lost?
James: ***yes, you're lost. Early Cj's (1946-1971) used a unique drag link set up that is frightenly similar to the Pick-up / wagon. A Ross sty le box is rigidly fixed to the steering column, and actuates a longitudin ally mounted drag link, which attaches to a bell-crank that is pivoted on the radiator support. (early ones pivoted on a pin attached to the axle. ) This all happened inboard of the frame rail. Two short separate links w ere attached from the bell-crank to each steering knuckle. If you compres s the suspension, the toe-in would change. ***
Jeff: Is the idea that of putting a GM steering gear at the horn of a truck and then making the linkage with u-joints?
James: ***That's the general idea. The u-joint at the steering box is almost straight, and the one at the base of the column is about 50-60 deg rees.***
Jeff: That's some mighty tight, almost 90deg, turns isn't it? It's als o a problem for me in clearing the V8 exhaust and PTO shaft. *** Yeah, if you're running a Ford V-8, you need to deal with the oil filter too! If you've got the PTO, then your problem is even more interesting. Since I h ate repairing broke winch cables, you might think about running a hydraul ic pump off the PTO, and then use a hydraulic winch...($$$)And, this is a lot lot of steering geometry to change so I'd suggest some care and thou ght to get it all done correctly.
James: **Fortunately, the engineering has already been done. If you du plicate the column geometry from a 1971-1975 CJ-5 you're in good shape. * **
Jeff: I prefer the steering geometry that you get with the original se tup on my wagon so I've been looking at ways to put a newer box there and keep the original column. I found a guy with and old Ford and he found t hat early 80's Toyota trucks use a power steering box that fits very nice ly. He had to cut the bottom of the steering column and used a u-joint co nnection. It looked very clean and this is my plan at this point. I also plan on replacing the current linkage with a rod/rod-end setup. I am now interested in what the DJ column looks like as I dislike chopping up good original stuff.
James: ***Yeah, but you still have that "little link" on the bottom of the knuckle that comes loose. It is also prone to rocks, stumps, etc, wh ich results in a rather abrupt right turn. I once added the control valve and cylinder from a 1966-68 Ford Mustang and fitted it to the original d rag link. It worked OK, but was very hard on the rod ends, and steering. Also didn't like the hoses hanging so low. I'll check out a Toyota box, m ight be interesting.***
Jeff: Also, my steering wheel isn't coming of of my column. I assume i t's just stuck from being on there so long. I'd welcome any helpful hints at getting it off. It looks like I'll have to fab some sort of puller se tup.
Return to MenuRick Stivers wrote: The rear shackles on my 62 Willys Pickup seem to be oddly made. They are mounted on the "inside" of the spring hanger. Then they flare out to fit the outside of the spring. It looks something like this.
______
| | | |
| | | |
/ \
/ \
/ \
| [--------] |
It seems that this would make the shackles a lot weaker at the spring hanger. Are they all made like this, or is this something someone changed to later?
PS The shackles on the left side of my truck are damaged. One is twist ed (How do you twist only one side of a shackle?) and the other one is cr acked so I need to replace them.
Frank Wood wrote: Mine are the same on my '64 PU. My right side shackl e had a nasty crack in it. Bought two new ones from Senor Walck for $24.5 0 each. Wear items I guess. But isn't everything a wear item?
R COX wrote: I noticed that the shackles on my truck were the same als o. I would guess that these are stock from the looks of 'em. I too have o ne bent up. I thought some one in the past had hooked a tow chain on it o r something of the like.
Richard Grover wrote: The inside/outside shackles on the rear are stoc k. The right one on my truck was worn out, I mean the bolt had worked it' s way up through the bronze bushing and about halfway through the thickne ss of the top of the spring eye. I replaced the shackle, the bolt and the top leaf of the spring. The shackle on the other side appeared to have b een replaced previously. Having only had my Willys a couple of years, and maybe 15,000 miles, I have no idea how long these last. However, I have driven on some pretty rough roads and carried some heavy loads with no ob vious damage. I think they are probably strong enough for normal driving conditions, but a tow chain on one would not be good.
Jeff Gent wrote: I don't know how the wagon compares to the truck, but my rear shackles are straight. I also seem to remember, I'll have to con firm, that mine went through the frame, thus no hanger.
Since the subject of spring mounts has been broached, I'm curious abou t the mounting of the front of the rear springs. Rather than two similar bolt holes in the hanger, the outside of the bolts has a rather large hea d (around 1.25") that fits in a large hole with the outside surface flush with the outside of the hanger. This is good for keeping things from get ting hung up but a pain when you want to get the nut off. The PO welded a nut to one side to deal with this, I was lucky on the other side. I want ed to put greasable bushings in when I redid the springs (assuming I can find bushings that fit) but this setup looks like I'll have to weld in ne w hangers to use a standard bolt setup. Any opinions/theories about the s tock setup and changing over to a greasable bolt setup (I already know ab out current commercial sources/making my own). I did notice, but have yet to scrape all the junk off to look closer, that the rear of the front sp ring has grease nipples already and that the front springs have military- wrapped eyes (something the jeep-tech guys seem to pay extra for).
Dave and Robin Samuelson wrote: Well, step 1 is get a couple cans of M r. Bubbles and scrub the hell out of the areas you want to play with. Sec ond, check out any racing/high performance street car shop and ( take a b olt with you ) and they should be able to hook you up with the greasable style bolts. Even a farm supply store would have them.
Return to MenuChris Croyle writes: Rick, do you have stock springs on your PU? M y "flat" front springs consist of 3 leafs - definitely not stock. I was c urious what you have since you also have a Chevy 350 and if they sit prop erly. Frank Wood was impressed with his new stock springs but I don't wan t to purchase them if they also go flat.
Rick Stivers answered: Chris, I have the original stock springs in my truck. They have 10 leaves, are 36 1/4" long and 1 3/4" wide. They are su pposed to be rated at 640 lbs. I'm not sure if that is apiece or as a set (Guys can you help me out there). These springs are 36 years old and onl y sag a little bit with the 350. The previous owner said they sagged a li ttle more before he installed the 350 back in 1978, and that the arch had returned to them afterward. That led me to believe that the 350 was ligh ter than the L-226. Someone else posted a while back that their small blo ck Chevy had not stained their lift but that the L-226 had. I wish I coul d find out the weight of these two engines. With the stock springs instal led the truck rides very rough. If I put about 500lbs in the bed it rides much better. The other thing I want to do is disassemble my springs, san d blast them, paint them, install new bushings, and then install Teflon p ads between the leaves. I think this will make the truck ride much nicer but I think it will end up costing me almost as much as new springs would .
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This discourse starts with a CJ but quickly moves to cover trucks as well.
Merl wrote: Anybody out there with a stock suspension CJ flatfender an d non-stock wheels and tires? I'm toying with the idea of going to a 15x7 or 15x8 wheel and either 30x9.5 or 31x10.5 tires. What I need to know is will the 31x10.5 tires fit without rubbing problems? I've got no plans t o do any kind of lift at this time. I am also assuming that the tire widt h will make a difference in the wheel offset...won't it? FWIW, I'd probab ly keep my old NDTs and wheels, so with no lift I can switch from modern to stock (and back) as the mood strikes me. Seems like the best of both w orlds now that I think about it! <g>
Matt Phillimore wrote: My 48 pickup has 31 X 10.5's on it, with the st ock suspension. I think they're pretty similar, but I don't have a CJ, so what do I know? Anyway... only problem I had with them was the left tire rubbing on the badly outside of frame mounted power steering box.
Merl wrote: Thanks Matt. I looked high and low for a pic of your PU in Rick's gallery but I didn't see it. I also heard from 2A owner Arne Ande rson, http://weber.u.washington.edu/~arndog/ who tells me the 30x9.5 shou ld fit the CJ very comparably to the NDTs.
I've got another wheel question that those with modern Jeep savy might be able to answer...
I've got a set of later model 15" stock Jeep rims on my parts Jeep wit h balding radials on them. Does anyone know how wide these would be? I'm wondering if the 30x9.5 radials would fit on these rims... I'm guessing t hey are 15x6.
Richard Grover wrote: Stock Willys truck wheels are 16x5; wagons had 1 6x4.5. The later CJ wheels (1970's) are 15x6 and work fine on a Willys pi ckup (I have some) and probably do fine on a CJ-2A. Also, I have some 15x 8 aftermarket wheels, but they are probably too wide. I'm trying to get s ome decent 16x5 rims so I can go stock when I feel like it.
Stock tires were 16x7.00 or 16x7.50 bias ply (may have even been as na rrow as 16x6.50 on some vehicles). If you still have the 16" rims, you ca n still get these tires for about $90 each, which is cheaper than radials .
There are pictures of 31x10.50's on the 15x8 rims on my truck - A1 in the Gallery. They stick out past the fender and throw lots of mud, on tho se rare occasions when I can find it in Arizona. I have mounted 31x10.50' s on the 15x6 rims, but they look a little too wide for that rim. You can also find 30x9.50 radials that are a good fit on the 15x6 wheels. My bro ther is running them on his 62 Scout, which also has the 5 on 5 1/2" lug pattern.
BF Goodrich makes a 33x9.50 that my friend at Discount Tire is trying to get me to try. He doesn't have them in stock, but can get them. I said I'd bring the Willys down with some of the 15x6 wheels. He'll mount them up and put them on the front. If they rub the steering, I walk away, but if they don't, he expects me to buy a set. Heck, if they work OK, I want them. Keep my belly up off those rocks.
Rick www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys
PS. I know the original question was about CJ-2A, but they had the sam e tall narrow rims and tires originally, so this may be relevant. Also, t his may be of interest to other list members with Willys other than 2A's.
If you look through the Gallery, you can see lots of narrow tires on s tock rims. You'll also see several rigs running wider tires like 31x10.50 's. I apologize to the CJ-2A, 3A & B, etc. folks, I only collect Util ity vehicle pictures. There were already a bunch of CJ sites when I start ed mine and there wasn't a decent Utility vehicle site on the whole web. Tom Wanamaker started the Willys Internet Truck Club about the same time as I started my site.
Rick LeBlanc wrote: I had LT 7.5x16's with stock springs on my 2a befo re I tore it to smithereens (spell check going berserk). Almost 30" tall with no additional mods required. Of course these were on the stock skinn y wheels. The unsprung weight of 15x7" rims and 31" tires might be too mu ch for the stock springs and shocks. Try 6" alloy rims, with a little neg ative offset to help turning radius, and 30x9.5" radials. These are fairl y large tires in person, Goodyear MT's almost look stock if you put the l etters inside.
MVP The Herb Farm wrote: Sorry Merl, if this thread is straying a bit. I just picked up a like-new set of 32x11.5 radials and I am now looking for some used steel wheels, I was thinking 15x10 (would 15x8 work?) with the 5 on 5 1/2 pattern for my '53 Wagon with SOA. Anyone tried this??? Wa nt to burst my bubble??? If I'm going to rub when not going straight, is a wheel spacer available/advisable as a cure? I know braking power is goi ng to be reduced with this set-up, so I'm keeping my wimpy tires for hwy traveling. Any comments/advice is appreciated.
Frank Sanborn wrote: I have a set of 32x11.50-15 BFG AT's on 15x8 whee ls and they fit just fine. Right now they are on my '76 CJ-5, but I have had them on my CJ-2A with stock suspension. They work fine going down the road, but rub during full-lock when turning and would rub if you got "cr ossed up" off road.
D. Blackner wrote: Hey guys, I am very curious as to your reasons for wanting bigger tires. I have the original 16 in. wheels and am planning o n keeping the skinny tires. This way the speedometer will be right and th ere will be less friction, thus better power and milage. What are the adv antages to having big tires other than the big foot look?
Merl wrote: In my case it isn't so much for the larger tire, its for a *modern* tire (read that as steel belted radials). The tires I'm conside ring, 30x9.5(15"), are actually very close to the diameter of the 6"x16" NDTs that came stock on it so my speedometer will still be accurate. My g oal is for a stock-ish Jeep that I can take on trail OR street, and be ab le to flat-tow halfway across the state at 60-70mph without worrying abou t the tires. If my only intended use was slow off-road, I wouldn't be wor ried about it and I'd have *retread* NDTs. I think a lot of it is the int ended use combined with personal preference. There are a lot of folks tha t pay big bucks to get that "big foot" look for no good reason other than its just what they wanted. Call me indecisive, but I like both looks. It s the functionality issue that's pushing me towards the radials.
James Roney wrote: Those Willys guys did. Your CJ-5 could be ordered w ith the very low 6.2:1 T-98 transmission behind the F-head. (maybe not yo ur 56, but definitely my 1960)
T-98's haven't been built for a long time, but the replacement T-18 ca n be found with the correct transfer case adapter, and the F-head adapter is available at Hicks. It works behind the L-head as well, and uses the factory bell housing. It's hard for me to believe that people still spend money on T-90's.
also, taller tires provide greater ground clearance, as well as the ab ility to "air-down" and maintain some ground clearance. I'm running 33x12 .5x16.5 BFG radial mud terrains, and with my Hummer two piece wheels, I r etained the internal bead lock. I can air down to 2-4 psi, and keep the b ead. The wider wheel affords great protection in the rocks to keep the hu bs from getting smashed. Its really nice to have four big marshmallows ou t there to compensate for my poor driving skill. They also provide better floatation in the mud, and will perform vastly better in the mud and sno w and street than the NDT's. The biggest problem is turning radius, which requires that you either run the wheels sticking out, or reduce turning radius. (they will hit the springs). A mild 2" lift allows the running of 32's, but 33's look "big." They will hit the rear inner fender under ful l articulation but not by much.
I run the 6.00x15 on my 2A, and I think they suck...but they do look s tock. As far as speedometer calibration, it's an easy fix,
Jerry Adams wrote: That was my consideration as well - I wanted tires that are easy to find and buy at a reasonable price. I wound up writing a small program that let me investigate the effects of tire size on drive force, motor RPM, road speed, etc. for my '2A. I did a lot of "spade work " finding actual manufacture's data for the rolling radius, circumference , revolutions per mile, etc. Lots of fun, really. I came up with 235-75R1 5 as a good compromise for size that is readily available. Because of the repairs I made to the frame, I don't do really serious off road stuff, a nd they work fine for what I do. Serious off-roaders will undoubtedly wan t something different, and the full up restorations would of course want the 16" "grave digger" tires.
On the subject of lower gears, Turner sells an input shaft and cluster gear (they must be purchased as a set) that gives first, second and reve rse gears in a T90 about 19.2% lower ratios than the ones that came stock from the factory. I had to rebuild my transmission, transfer case and bo th axles, so I had ample opportunity to make changes. Because I do drive my jeep on road quite a bit, I wanted to have a setup that let me drive o n the highway at a reasonable motor RPM, but still be ample for the modes t off road work I do. After a great deal of number crunching, I came up w ith the following:
TIRES: General Grabber AP radicals in size 235-75R15 on 7" wide rims.
AXLES:
Front - Spicer 25 with 4.27:1 open differential.
Rear - Dan a 44 with 4.27:1 open differential (money was a problem)
TRANSMISSION: Wagner T90A with special input shaft and cluster gear to give a 19.2% lower ratio in 1st, 2nd, and reverse.
TRANSFER CASE: Spicer 18 with the "large" intermediate shaft.
The above gives me about the same performance off road, but a much low er engine ROM in third (high) gear for better on road use:
GEAR RATIO TABLE
REMARKS: CJ2A with original factory configuration.
AXLE RATIO: 5.86:1 TRANSFER CASE LO: 2.460:1 HI: 1.000:1
TIRE SIZE: 6.00 X 16 TIRE DIAMETER: 28.0 INCHES REVOLUTIONS PER MILE: 720.29
ENGINE RPM AT 55 MPH IN HIGH RANGE 3RD (HIGHWAY CRUSE): 3869.1
MAX ENGINE RPM: 4000 MAX SUSTAINED RPM: 3600 MAX TORQUE AT: 2000 RPM.< /P>
ROAD ROAD ROAD DRIVE AXLE TOTAL XFR TRANS-
SPEED SPEED SPEED FORCE TORQUE MULT. CASE MIS SION
AT AT AT AT AT POSITION
4000 3600 2000 MAX MAX AND RATIOS.
RPM RPM RPM TORQUE TORQUE
57 51 28 527.4 615.30 5.86 HI 1.000 3RD
37 33 18 818.0 954.3 9.09 HI 1.551 2ND
20 18 10 1475.7 1721.6 16.40 HI 2.798 1ST
15 13 7 2003.1 2336.9 22.26 HI 3.798 REV
23 21 12 1297.4 1513.6 14.42 LO 1.000 3RD
15 13 7 2012.3 2347.7 22.36 LO 1.551 2ND
8 7 4 3630.1 4235.2 40.33 LO 2.798 1ST
6 5 3 4927.5 5748.8 54.75 LO 3.798 REV
After the rebuild, the numbers look like this:
GEAR RATIO TABLE
REMARKS: Jennifer Jeep
AXLE RATIO: 4.27:1 TRANSFER CASE LO: 2.460:1 HI: 1.000:1
TIRE SIZE: 235/75 R15 TIRE DIAMETER: 28.9 INCHES
REVOLUTIONS PER MILE: 697.86
ENGINE RPM AT 55 MPH IN HIGH RANGE 3RD (HIGHWAY CRUSE): 2731.5
MAX ENGINE RPM: 4000 MAX SUSTAINED RPM: 3600 MAX TORQUE AT: 2000 RPM.< /P>
ROAD ROAD ROAD DRIVE AXLE TOTAL XFR TRANS-< /P>
SPEED SPEED SPEED FORCE TORQUE MULT. CASE MISSION
AT AT AT AT AT RATIO POS
4000 3600 2000 MAX MAX
RPM RPM RPM TORQUE TORQUE
81 72 40 430.4 448.4 4.27 HI 1.000 3RD
44 39 22 796.7 829.9 7.90 HI 1.851 2ND
24 22 12 1437.2 1497.0 14.26 HI 3.339 1ST
18 16 9 1950.6 2031.9 19.35 HI 4.532 REV
33 29 16 1058.8 1102.9 10.50 LO 1.000 3RD
18 16 9 1959.9 2041.5 19.44 LO 1.851 2ND
10 9 5 3535.4 3682.7 35.07 LO 3.339 1ST
7 7 4 4798.6 4998.5 47.61 LO 4.532 REV
Most of the above is self explanatory, with the possible exception of the column labeled "Drive Force at Max Torque" This is the data that will probably be of the most interest to jeepers. I used the published data f or my "Go Devil" motor, which gave the maximum torque as 105 foot-pounds at 2,000 RPM. From this, it is easy to calculate the torque available to a single shaft that has the total gear reduction of the differential, tra nsmission and transfer case for all of the possible gear combinations. Th is is the value given under "Axle Torque at Max Torque." (The max torque refers to the torque available from the motor - ie 105 ft lbs.). In the r eal jeep, this torque would be divided and available at either two or fou r wheels, but for the sake of making the calculations easy, the table ass umes all of the output from the system would be applied to a single "axle " shaft.
The "Drive Force" is derived by dividing the available torque by the r olling radius of the given tire, and is the actual force in pounds that i t would take to exactly counterbalance the axle torque with a lever of th e same length as the rolling radius. This is the amount of force availabl e to drive the vehicle forward or backwards. Note that this assumes a tir e with 100% tractive effort, ie one that never ever slips or spins. As we all know, tires do slip, and there are a good number of jeepers who have spent a lot of money on locking differentials, limited slip differential s, etc. in a effort to minimize tire slip. However, no locker or other de vice that does not add a gear reduction to the chain can provide more dri ving force than the above calculations. Also, no provision is made for fr iction losses.
The "Max Sustained RPM" is an arbitrary value picked by me as what I w ould use for a "red line" with my motor. I seldom let it get that high, a s it sounds like the poor little flat head is about to pop off the block about then. I try to drive with the motor RPM at about 2,000. Yes, I did install a tach...
From all of the above gibberish, it is shown that I can cruse down the road at a much lower RPM than stock, but I am paying only a small penalt y in (about 2.6% less in Low Range First Gear) terms of the "Drive Force" that is available to push my jeep along.
Well, that's what I went through in selecting the tires and ratios for my jeep. It was a lot of fun! I hope some of you find this helpful, or a t least interesting.
Merl wrote: Once again, Jerry comes up with an interesting and in-dept h post. Couple of questions...
I thought the 2A's original axle ratio was 5.38:1. I'm curious where y ou found the figure of 5.86:1.
My NDTs are 7.00 x 16 and the diameter measures at a little over 29", so accounting for tread wear I figured it was classified as 30" tire. Do you know how the diameter measurement is taken? Is it taken mounted and i nflated or otherwise? If the measurement mechanism is the same today as i t was 50 years ago, the 30x9.5 tires would actually put my chassis 1" tal ler than stock? Cool.
I'm curious to know how your L-head performs in 3rd gear in high range . Comparing the stock numbers in combination with a 25% overdrive, this s hould provide a TOTAL MULT of 4.395 in 3rd gear hi-range, where yours is 4.27. I know that my L-head struggles when I'm doing 55 (in OD) up a long overpass, and shifting out of OD changes my ratio to 5.38, er-ah 5.86 wh ich is usually enough to get me over the top at a reasonable speed. (Usin g 5.38 for the axle ratio puts the stock+OD 3rd gear ratio at 4.035, noti ceably lower/weaker than your modified configuration.) What I'm getting a t is do you experience any big disadvantage on the road with your ranges spread out over just 3 gears?
Richard Grover wrote: Jerry, Good numbers. Where did you find a tach? Are you 12V? I looked for a 6V tach but all I could find were 12V tachs. I don't know what difference it makes, but the people at the parts stores didn't think a 12V tach would work with a 6V system. I know I can do the whole voltage conversion in electronics, but it seemed like a lot of wor k for a tach. How about an electrical engineer explaining to us why a 12V tach will or will not work with 6V?
Jerry Adams wrote: Oh, dear... You caught a big fat typo!!! Strange I never noticed it, as the information I sent out was the basis for all of my decisions about tire size and ratios, etc. I re-ran the numbers. Here' s the data for a '2A with the correct axle ratio:
GEAR RATIO TABLE
REMARKS: CJ2A IN STANDARD FACTORY CONFIGURATION - CORRECTED AXLE RATIO !
AXLE RATIO: 5.38:1 TRANSFER CASE LO: 2.460:1 HI: 1.000:1
TIRE SIZE: 6.00 X 16 TIRE DIAMETER: 28.00INCHES
REVOLUTIONS PER MILE: 720.29
ENGINE RPM AT 55 MPH IN HIGH RANGE 3RD (HIGHWAY CRUSE): 3552.2
MAX ENGINE RPM: 4000 MAX SUSTAINED RPM: 3600 MAX TORQUE AT: 2000 RPM.< /P>
ROAD ROAD ROAD DRIVE AXLE TOTAL XFR TRANS-< /P>
SPEED SPEED SPEED FORCE TORQUE MULT. CASE M ISSION
AT AT AT AT AT POSITION
4000 3600 2000 MAX MAX
RPM RPM RPM TORQUE TORQUE
62 56 31 484.2 564.9 5.38 HI 1.000 3RD
40 36 20 751.0 876.2 8.34 HI 1.551 2ND
22 20 11 1354.8 1580.6 15.05 HI 2.798 1ST
16 15 8 1839.0 2145.5 20.43 HI 3.798 REV
25 23 13 1191.1 1389.7 13.23 LO 1.000 3RD
16 15 8 1847.4 2155.4 20.53 LO 1.551 2ND
9 8 4 3332.8 3888.3 37.03 LO 2.798 1ST
7 6 3 4523.9 5277.9 50.27 LO 3.798 REV
And, again for comparison, the final values for my jeep:
GEAR RATIO TABLE
REMARKS: Jennifer Jeep
AXLE RATIO: 4.27:1 TRANSFER CASE LO: 2.460:1 HI: 1.000:1
TIRE SIZE: 235/75 R15 TIRE DIAMETER: 28.90INCHES
REVOLUTIONS PER MILE: 697.86
ENGINE RPM AT 55 MPH IN HIGH RANGE 3RD (HIGHWAY CRUSE): 2731.5
MAX ENGINE RPM: 4000 MAX SUSTAINED RPM: 3600 MAX TORQUE AT: 2000 RPM.< /P>
ROAD ROAD ROAD DRIVE AXLE TOTAL XFR TRA NS-
SPEED SPEED SPEED FORCE TORQUE MULT. CASE & #9;MISSION
AT AT AT AT AT POSITION
4000 3600 2000 MAX MAX
RPM RPM RPM TORQUE TORQUE
81 72 40 30.4 448.4 4.27 HI 1.000 3RD
44 39 22 796.7 829.9 7.90 HI 1.851 2ND
24 22 12 1437.2 1497.0 14.26 HI 3.339 1ST
18 16 9 1950.6 2031.9 19.35 HI 4.532 REV
33 29 16 1058.8 1102.9 10.50 LO 1.000 3RD
18 16 9 1959.9 2041.5 19.44 LO 1.851 2ND
10 9 5 3535.4 3682.7 35.07 LO 3.339 1ST
7 7 4 4798.6 4998.5 47.61 LO 4.532 REV
With the correct axle ratio, it now seems that I have slightly *more* drive force (about 6%) available with the new configuration than with the original.
Thanks for spotting the typo... Strange, but I never caught it before! !!!
Jerry Adams wrote: I converted my jeep to 12 volts so I could mount a winch. I got a 0-4000 RPM tach from J. C. Whitney. All of the tachs in th e local parts houses went up to 8,000 RPM or more. Since my little flat h ead red lines at 4,000 RPM, that meant that half the range would be waste d. When I saw the low RPM tach in JCW, I ordered it. I have been more tha n satisfied with it, and the readings I get from it agree very well with the calculations I made regarding gear ratios, tire sizes, etc. I can cal ibrate my speedometer courtesy of the local California Highway Patrol. Th ey have a little trailer that they park by the side of the road that has a radar unit attached to a *big* LCD readout. It displays your speed as y ou approach it. They use it as a gentle reminder. If you see the trailer parked someplace, better start slowing down, as the police will be there in a few days handing out tickets.
I used the trailer to find out my true road speed for a couple of indi cated speeds on my speedometer. After that, I was able to compare the kno wn speed with the tach readings. This helped to verify my calculations fo r the tires, axle ratios, etc.
As to whether or not a 12V tach would work on 6V, it all depends. Most of the analog tach circuits I have seen use some form of integration to determine how far up the needle goes. To cut out the technical stuff, I w ould expect that such a circuit would not read accurately on a 6 volt cir cuit. Some of the digital tachs use an analog integrator followed by a di gital conversion stage, and they would probably not read right either. So rry, but I don't know much about how the different gages are implemented, so I have no recommendation beyond checking some catalogs. They use to m ake 6V tachs, as I had one on an old WM300 once. Unfortunately, it took a n external mercury battery as a reference, which kept running down. Final ly I neglected to replace the battery for too long, and the "juice" got i nto the innards, ruining it.
Chad Welch wrote: Jerry: I wish I had your head, w/cold, and you had a better one. There are several of you out there that can really humble a guy. Any way, several E-MAILS ago some one wrote about a shaky/wobbly fro nt end. I let my alligator mouth get a head of my humming bird a__ and sa id "Ya mine does the same, I just don't drive it over 40 mph. Well fortun ately several of you said no way my front end is tight regardless of spee d and you can balance tires with or without tubes. So, I have replaced my tie rods, ends, tubes, etc. I purchased new 600x16 ndt tires a couple of months ago(I didn't replace them). My front end is TIGHT now cost less t han $100.00 w/shipping(Turner 4x4). I also found a guy that balanced my t ires with what looked like a 60's vintage Snap-On spin balancer(I offered to buy the thing on the spot, no luck but I'll try again:-)). Spin balan ced the tries ON the jeep. My little jewel runs like a top now. Moral of the story: Listen to the folks on "Willys Tech" and heed the quote by Mr. Royce at the end of Jerry's notes!!!!! Thanks for keeping my head out of the sand!!
Return to MenuWHAT COMMON RIMS FIT THE WILLYS BOLT PATTERN?
Kevin Dorris wrote: Hello, What common wheels fit the Willys bolt pattern? Jeep? What years? Ford?.Thanks.
Dave and Robin Samuelson wrote: Well, from what I have heard, it's a 7 .00x16 tire/rim and the bolt pattern is 5 on 5 1/2, which is ( I think, d ue to my research ) common to all willy's / Jeep vehicles. So, in theory, the wheels from my 47 '2A would fit an 85' CJ, 94' wrangler, 98 TJ, Cher okee, GC, and so on. If anyone knows different, then please correct me.
Frank Sanborn wrote: You're close- The 5 on 5 1/2 wheels will fit up t o an '86 CJ. YJ, XJ, MJ, and ZJ all use (I believe) a 5 on 4 1/2 wheel. T he Full size Jeeps used the 5 on 5 1/2 wheels until about '74 or so, when they switched to a 6 bolt wheel, like a Chevy truck. You also have to be careful because you could get a Ford wheel that is 5 on 5 1/2, but has a smaller center hole, and it won't fit over your hubs, even though the bo lt pattern is correct.
Return to MenuRichard Grover wrote: The wheels from a mid-seventies CJ will be 1 5X6. These will fit a little better on the Willys truck than 15x8's. I tr aded my 15x8's to a guy for his 16x5's. Different strokes for different f olks.
James Roney wrote: Yeah!!! I just got the 16.5 x 8.25 Hummer wheels mo unted up with 33's for my CJ. You gotta love those beadlocks. :) I highly recommend that you "try before you buy." Wheel widths, offset, tire bulg e, and overall height is a matter of personal taste once you deviate from factory stock. If you see something that you like, copy it exactly, and you'll be happy.
Return to MenuChuck Pedretti wrote: Just spent last night trying to remove t he wheels on my 46 CJ2a, strangest thing the wheels on the right side cam e off easy got to the other side and all the nuts were froze (I thought). After breaking a couple of sockets and getting nothing but stud spin, I decided to quarter the nuts with an air wheel to get them off. After cutt ing 8 of them off completely I came to an interesting discovery (try to c ontain the DUHH's) all the studs on the left side were reverse threaded. Are there any other reverse threaded parts I should know about? I am new to working on vehicles this old (it's got 23 years on me) is this normal? Thanks
Jeff Gent responded: Standard issue for old rigs is left handed studs on the drivers side.
Some long ago disproved theory that this helped prevent the lug nuts
from coming loose. You can put on right handed lug bolts to avoid this
issue in the future.
By the way, those little grooves in the side of the nut are the standa rd
indication that this is a left handed nut. You'll see this on almost
all gas (propane, acetylene, natural gas) fittings.
James Roney wrote: The lug nuts on the left hand side of the Willys ar e certainly left hand thread, but I'd be cautious of that "long disproved theory" part.
The theory behind needing LH threads on the LH side is sound, but the application has become unnecessary with the advent of the modern "safety center" wheel. If you take the time to examine the hub ring of any modern stamped steel wheel, you will notice that there is a relief stamped into the flange which deforms elastically (like a spring) when loaded. This d eformation allows for minor deflection of the wheel flange without having the self-loosening effect that occurs without it.
This "long disproved" theory was still in application in 1986, and can be seen on the left rear (only) of the F250 w/ DANA 70U. Keep an eye out for Big-rigs with Budd wheels too. Many of those are still LH. (interest ing that newer 60 degree conical lug aluminum wheels are OK???)
...bottom line: If you intend to run the original wheels, keep the LH wheel studs, or else check them often.
Scott Little wrote: My truck was missing many lugs and lug nuts, when I was surveying to see how many replacements to purchase I noticed some o f the lugs had L's stamped on the end and some had R's stamped on them. D id I get lucky or do others have the L's & R's also???
James Roney wrote: I'm going to try to explain this in words, but with out pictures it's more difficult. Try to imagine that all of the lug nuts are loose. In that case, only the bottom of the nut would be in contact with the wheel. Now apply the torque in the dominant direction and see wh ich way the lug nut wants to turn. To accelerate, on the LH side of the J eep, the axle turns CCW. Since the wheel flange is pushing against the bo ttom, the nut will want to rotate CW. If that makes sense, then you need to remember that braking forces are vastly higher than driving forces, (e specially on the front of a 2wd car!)
As to the tapered axle-shaft, they are both RH thread, put you will ne ed a puller even after you take off the big nut. Behind the nut is a tape red axle with a single square key. The key is primarily for alignment pur poses, and will shear if the nut is not properly torqued.
You'll need to remove those flanges in order to properly repair the br akes. (meaning the 11 inch self energizing ones) There's another thread g oing on about that one!
Return to Menu------------------------------
James Roney wrote: If you can find a T98, that already has the cor rect adapter in it, it is a vast improvement over the T90. The fact that it weighs about 100 lbs more, and is 4 inches longer (5.125" in your case !) should not discourage you. I have a T98 in my 47 CJ-2A, behind the L-h ead, that came out of a 1960 Willys CJ-5 "trencher." While it is a bolt i n, it's big, heavy, and the floorboards need modification. I don't know h ow you would ever shift one in an FC, but maybe there's a special shift c over???
Obviously, if I'm willing to put one behind an L-head, that should say something about the value of having a 6.2:1 first gear. It's also nice t o know that you'll NEVER blow one up...wear it out, maybe, but no way to blow it up. They do shift slower, and rocking from first to reverse is a challenge.
You might consider going with the T-18 instead. It has the same case, and shares many parts, but is vastly more plentiful, and cheaper. The lat e model ones ('70's) also have reverse toward the seat, (instead of towar d the dash) which makes the 2-3 up-shift easier. Otherwise, the T-18 can be found with the correct Dana-20 adapter, (easy machining for model 18) and the correct 6 spline output shaft. The input requires an adapter, and you need the correct input shaft.
Dave Blackmon wrote: The T98 is hands down the better of the two trann ies, I have one of each ('61 FC170 w/T98 and '62 FC170DRW w/T90) and woul d gladly trade my Warn overdrive for another T98 in FC configuration.Landen Schooler wrote: Ok, since you know of T-98s ( anyone else)...I' m need to find the six spline output shaft and the iron plate that goes b etween the trans and t/c. Know of any?? Please? (the sound of sobbing)
Return to MenuTRANSMISSION OOPS
Matt Phillimore wrote: I goofed. I pulled the main shaft out of th e input on the t-86 in the wagon. And you already know what that means. N ow, what's the best way to get it back together after all those needle be arings fell out of there? Is there some trick, or is it just one of those things that's going to take a lot of care and patience?
Keats wrote: I'm not familiar with the t-86, but if its similar to the t-90 you may be able to slip the main shaft out of the case thru the rea r bearing hole, put the rollers back in the input shaft and use heavy gre ase to hold them in place, and carefully reinstall the main. If I remembe r right that's what we did we my t-90. Hope it helps, Gary
Parshall Theodore J wrote: Hold the needles in place with an oil solub le grease like petroleum jelly. The grease will "glue" the rollers in pla ce while you gently insert the shaft. Very shortly after starting the mac hine, you want the grease to dissolve and allow the oil to lube the beari ngs, hence, oil soluble grease.
Ron C wrote: Who hasn't had that problem??? What you need to put the n eedle bearings back in is lot of wheel bearing grease. When I say a lot, I mean coat the inside of the race with grease so the needle bearings wil l stick there. Patience is also recommended. I just put back the lower cl uster on a T-90 where there is 4 rows of 22 needle bearings. It went well though.
Return to MenuMVP The Herb Farm forwarded: Got a situation. About a year ago I r ebuilt my T-case back to stock. (including the interlock pin) Now I've le arned that if I'd had left the interlock out, I would have been able to u se two-wheel-drive, low range. This sounded like a good thing. It's been a year since I put the case together, so I got to looking at the explode diagram in the manual and decide if I remove the levers and front ouput y oke and the piece that hold 'em, I can pull it off over the shift rods an d remove the inter lock. Uh-oh. It came out about a 1/2" and now won't go either way. The 4wd shift rod still slides back & forth but the high /low barely moves. Any suggestions? Can't get it apart or back together. I haven't been able to work on it this week but I work on it tomorrow. Th ought I'd try to get some insight. Thanks
Parshall Theodore J wrote: Be very careful in what conditions you use 2wd low range. The reason you could not get 2wd low unmodified, is the fa ctory desire to "share the load" between two axles, minimizing the possib ility of twisting off drive line components. Low range multiplies the tor que transferred, and two axles will handle that load better than one. Gra nted, under just the right circumstances, you may have the same load case in 4wd, but the key word was "minimize".
MVP The Herb Farm) forwarded: To those that were interested; Just quit working on my transfer case and finally got out the interlock pill. I le arned a few things along the way.
1. You can remove the interlock by just taking off the front output/sh ift lever tower.
2. You don't have to remove the shift rod seals or the front out put s eals. (I did unfortunately)
3. Found a real cool and easy way to remove the shift rod seals.
4. Trying to hammer in new seals will wake the 6-year-old daughter who sleeps in the room above the garage.
5. I do a lot of un-necessary stuff when I'm frustrated.
6. Patience is a virtue that I was blessed with very little of.
This could probably be done without removing the transfer case from th e vehicle.
First thing I did was remove the shift levers. Good move but I think i t would be best to put it in 2WD and neutral first. I think this is the p osition that finally allowed me to remove the shift tower/output cover. < /P>
Next I removed the bolts that hold the springs/poppet balls. I think I should have removed the bolts holding the tower to the case first. In fa ct this may be the first thing to do. I think that would minimize the shi ft rod movement once you remove the levers and poppet balls.
Now the whole she-bang should just pull off. Not what happened to me. Since I didn't have my rods in the right place the interlock pill was cat ching on the high/low rod and the tower. It came out about a half inch an d hung up. At this point the tower had less than 1/4" of movement. The 2/ 4 wd rod would move it's full range but the high/low would barely move. < /P>
After trying every combo with the lever while holding the whole case a t every possible lever. I started getting frustrated and removed one of t he rod seals with a screwdriver to see if anything under it was holding u p the works. Nope.
Took off the drain cover to see if anything in there was queering the deal. Nope.
Thought that if I shot some compressed air in the poppet ball hole it would move the interlock pill over. Nope, but this shoots the shift rod s eal right off the rod. Have to remember that trick for the next rebuild/r eseal, that was cool.
Thought maybe there was a snap ring under the front output seal. Nope. (New seals are a lot harder to remove than old rusted ones. Too much wor k for no gain.)
I was just about to quit for the night and I had the case lying on its back with the rods pointing up in the air. Tried playing with them one m ore time. CLUNK! They seemed to find common ground, hmmm.
Gave big yank on tower/cover, fall on ass, parts flying all over. Whoo ps didn't have to pull hard.
Used magnet to suck out interlock.
Found out it was too late to install seals and had to give up for the night. Much happier person now. I hope I use two wheel/low a lot! Jack St archer
